Euro 2020 General Discussion

[dontcloseyoureyes]

I've understandably been avoiding football Twitter for the last few days so I've not actually seen. Is KDB actually going to play? Didn't he have his face caved in?

 

[sledger]

I've understandably been avoiding football Twitter for the last few days so I've not actually seen. Is KDB actually going to play? Didn't he have his face caved in?

Broken eye socket so I'd guess it's pretty touch and go.

 

[Uppercut]

I've understandably been avoiding football Twitter for the last few days so I've not actually seen. Is KDB actually going to play? Didn't he have his face caved in?

Last I heard he doesn't need surgery and has joined up with the squad. So looks like he'll probably play. Maybe Rudiger can lend him his mask.

 

[Uppercut]

I had this conversation with someone else the other day. He strongly agreed with you. I wasn't so sure, as he's barely played for ages, and actually I don't think he's as good as the younger guys. Especially as he's playing in a more advanced role nowadays, and is therefore competing with Mount and Foden instead of Rice. But maybe that's just me.

He clearly won't play two of Foden/Mount/Grealish as free 8s. It's understandable, in that when your attackers are much better than your defenders it usually means that you need more good defensive players, not less. OTOH, the evidence from England games in the last year is that when they play an ultra-solid shape they're just plain not good enough.

 

[Pothas]

Can't wait for the Portugal, Germany and France group.

But it also reminds me of how the Euros just used to be much better.

 

[wpdavid]

I think I know what you mean by free 8s, but I'm not sure so bear with me if I'm getting this wrong. (As an unrelated issue, I was told by a mate that his 13 year old daughter was playing as a 'false 9' for her club side, ffs). But if the bottom line is that we play two defensive midfielders to protect our iffy back four, then fair enough. And I can see Henderson fitting in there. My only worry is what happened against Poland when Kane spends most of the match playing so deep that we have nobody in the box to finish anything we do manage to create.

 

[Uppercut]

Can't wait for the Portugal, Germany and France group.

But it also reminds me of how the Euros just used to be much better.

I wouldn't mind the expansion so much if it didn't give us a group format where most third-place teams go through. It's a disaster. Just leads to loads of meaningless games.

 

[wpdavid]

Can't wait for the Portugal, Germany and France group.

But it also reminds me of how the Euros just used to be much better.

In terms of format? 24 teams is rarely a recipe for a great tournament, but it can be rescued by great teams and a handful of great matches. But in terms of quality? I suppose the 2000 was the obvious exception, but other than that?

 

[Uppercut]

I think I know what you mean by free 8s, but I'm not sure so bear with me if I'm getting this wrong. (As an unrelated issue, I was told by a mate that his 13 year old daughter was playing as a 'false 9' for her club side, ffs). But if the bottom line is that we play two defensive midfielders to protect our iffy back four, then fair enough. And I can see Henderson fitting in there. My only worry is what happened against Poland when Kane spends most of the match playing so deep that we have nobody in the box to finish anything we do manage to create.

Yeah I just mean the attacking midfield position that De Bruyne and Silva played together for City. Pretty sure it's what DCYE was suggesting England are well equipped for. But Southgate pretty obviously doesn't have the stones.

 

[WICFan]

I wouldn't mind the expansion so much if it didn't give us a group format where most third-place teams go through. It's a disaster. Just leads to loads of meaningless games.

24 teams is always an awkward amount, I remember years ago they done it with the Champions League.

Expand in to 32 and it further dilutes the tournament. Reduce it to 20 and 4 groups of 5 would probably just have more meaningless games.

The World Cup expansion is another bad call.

 

[Red_Ink_Squid]

Sometimes I think that can be an advantage tbh. I'd rather work on this basis than going for a tried and tested combination of players who are known to repeatedly churn out turgid performances (i.e., England 2008 - 2018).

I agree that having some fresh, exciting talent is an asset for sure. But going into a major tournament I think you'd ideally only have 1 or 2 players like that. Like, if we had a solid international XI and were trying to introduce a Foden or a Sancho to give new impetus that would be great. But we're in a position where pretty much every spot between the centre backs and centre forward needs to be cobbled together from a list of young players with only a handful of caps each*, and potentially in an unfamiliar system to boot. Could work out great but I fear 'disjointed' isn't unlikely.


*or picking more experienced but less desirable alternatives, like Sterling

 

[wpdavid]

24 teams is always an awkward amount, I remember years ago they done it with the Champions League.

Expand in to 32 and it further dilutes the tournament. Reduce it to 20 and 4 groups of 5 would probably just have more meaningless games.

The World Cup expansion is another bad call.

I agree. I was about to suggest that a 20-team tournament could have 5 groups of 4, but the maths doesn't support it at all, with the top 3 going through from all of the groups as well as the best 4th team. You probably knew that already. I remember a few WCs having 24 teams. The less bad option was the four best 3rd place sides joining the 12 top 2 sides. The terrible option was a second stage with four groups of 3. 16 is so obviously perfect for the euros.

 

[Pothas]

I wouldn't mind the expansion so much if it didn't give us a group format where most third-place teams go through. It's a disaster. Just leads to loads of meaningless games.

Yeah 32 would be better although 16 was perfect for the Euros.

I still love an international tournament more than basically anything else though so will still be trying to watch pretty much every match.

 

[wpdavid]

Yeah 32 would be better although 16 was perfect for the Euros.

I still love an international tournament more than basically anything else though so will still be trying to watch pretty much every match.

Good luck with your second point as your kid(s) get older and your missus becomes less forgiving.

 

[sledger]

I agree that having some fresh, exciting talent is an asset for sure. But going into a major tournament I think you'd ideally only have 1 or 2 players like that. Like, if we had a solid international XI and were trying to introduce a Foden or a Sancho to give new impetus that would be great. But we're in a position where pretty much every spot between the centre backs and centre forward needs to be cobbled together from a list of young players with only a handful of caps each*, and potentially in an unfamiliar system to boot. Could work out great but I fear 'disjointed' isn't unlikely.


*or picking more experienced but less desirable alternatives, like Sterling

Yeah I agree that would be ideal, but in the absence of ideal I'd much rather go with an unknown quantity than something that has an extensive track record of being rubbish.

England went with the experienced option for pretty much every tournament between 2006 and 2018 and the results were always pretty grim. Endless Rooney, Gerrard, Lampard and Terry plodding.

 

[Pothas]

Good luck with your second point as your kid(s) get older and your missus becomes less forgiving.

Well this may be the last one.

Just need that furlough to last one more month...

 

[Uppercut]

Yeah I agree that would be ideal, but in the absence of ideal I'd much rather go with an unknown quantity than something that has an extensive track record of being rubbish.

England went with the experienced option for pretty much every tournament between 2006 and 2018 and the results were always pretty grim. Endless Rooney, Gerrard, Lampard and Terry plodding.

I think in 2010 they didn't really have any good young alternatives. 2014 was the one where Sterling and Sturridge were on fire going in and Hodgson hamstrung the attack by shoehorning Rooney in.

It's an underrated failure in general. The only tournament I can remember where England went in with expectations that were too low.

 

[wpdavid]

Ward-Prowse and Lingard definitely not in the squad apparently.

 

[BoyBrumby]

Surely Henderson will start.

Yeah, with Rice as the other holding midfield and Mount just in front is my guess.

Southgate is fairly conservative with his XIs' set ups generally (as a career CB his first thought is defence), and, although we do have far more attacking potential than three years ago, I'd be very surprised if all three don't feature, at least initially.

Hoping two of Foden, Grealish or Sancho are up front with Kane, but have a sick feeling in the pit of my gut it'll be Rashford and Sterling.

 

[wpdavid]

The decline in Sterling's standing this season is something to behold.