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Josh Hazlewood vs James Anderson
- Thread starter Jack1
- Start date
stephen
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
The problem with the pitches in hell is that they're so dry from all the fires. What's worse is that they use the kookaburra due to its torturous lack of movement. The wickets in hell are all finger spinner wickets and so even when there are clouds Anderson wouldn't be successful.
vcs
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NZ only played 5 Tests in India over the last decade. West Indies played 7, Sri Lanka only got 3 Tests (in 2017) which is absurd.
vcs
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We've played appreciably fewer home games than England and Australia.
stats.espncricinfo.com
We really need to start spamming home Tests like England now that we control the ICC and are actually good (well, close to invincible at home), start running up those aggregate records.
Team records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPNcricinfo.com
We really need to start spamming home Tests like England now that we control the ICC and are actually good (well, close to invincible at home), start running up those aggregate records.
Records | Test matches | Bowling records | Oldest player to take five-wickets-in-an-innings | ESPNcricinfo.com
Statsguru, ESPNCricinfo's searchable cricket statistics database
Not many seamers on there, let alone ones who have played 150 Test matches.
TheJediBrah
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school mate of yours?
Gob
International Coach
Purely based on longevity
Do think Anderson is massively underrated by some - I guess the question is how far you go down when calling ATGs - I'd like to think most aren't saying he is a Marshall or Steyn for example but this Test showed he's not rubbish overseas like some portray and even when he doesn't get wickets, he keeps it tight. An incredible record in the UAE too which goes under the radar. Also has shown great longevity which is significant in my view - he does get the opportunity to play more Tests than most each year so his Test numbers are inflated but that simultaneously is also more reason for him to break down and not be International quality after 33/34 years of age.
Having said that he does have holes in his record - in South Africa, New Zealand, India and Australia - I mean they are hardly dreadful averages and especially in India and Australia may well be better than average given Australian pitches are normally pretty good to bat and the pitches England bowled on in India last time especially were very flat but then I guess you don't become an ATG solely by being a bit better than average.
As an aside, thought I'd have a look at Anderson's average in the games Steyn played in England and it actually probably strengthens the case for Steyn and weakens it for Anderson - the best bowler of the era not doing great in England but notably better than Anderson still.
Steyn - 23 wickets @ 31.65 (5 matches)
Anderson - 15 wickets @ 41.07 (5 matches)
Having said that he does have holes in his record - in South Africa, New Zealand, India and Australia - I mean they are hardly dreadful averages and especially in India and Australia may well be better than average given Australian pitches are normally pretty good to bat and the pitches England bowled on in India last time especially were very flat but then I guess you don't become an ATG solely by being a bit better than average.
As an aside, thought I'd have a look at Anderson's average in the games Steyn played in England and it actually probably strengthens the case for Steyn and weakens it for Anderson - the best bowler of the era not doing great in England but notably better than Anderson still.
Steyn - 23 wickets @ 31.65 (5 matches)
Anderson - 15 wickets @ 41.07 (5 matches)
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Cricketer Of The Year
Steyn - 23 wickets @ 31.65 (5 matches)
Anderson - 15 wickets @ 41.07 (5 matches)
An interesting but hardly fair comparison. The series where both played were 2008 and 2012, at a time when Steyn was at his peak. I would argue that Anderson's peak performances have come after those series.
Anderson - 15 wickets @ 41.07 (5 matches)
An interesting but hardly fair comparison. The series where both played were 2008 and 2012, at a time when Steyn was at his peak. I would argue that Anderson's peak performances have come after those series.
OverratedSanity
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2012 was well within peak anderson period. 2010 onwards he's been consistently great.
TheJediBrah
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From 2010 until that 2012 series he did average 24.08 overall and 26.84 overseas - Australia, South Africa, Sri Lanka and the UAE were his overseas tours in that time - arguably one of the best points of his career to argue against the rubbish away from home stick he (unfairly in my view) gets given none of those are using the Dukes ball and his overall average in 3 of those Tests are not sensational (not awful either) and whilst he has a great record in the UAE it is hardly a paradise for seamers.
If we say his peak starts from 2014 (2013 was his worst averaging year since 2009) - he averages 21.46 overall since then, an away average of 25.04 which goes up to 26.88 if you exclude the West Indies who also use the Dukes ball - almost identical to 2010-12. If he was not yet at his peak in 2010-2012 it then suggests the only difference between Anderson during that time period and peak Anderson is his performances at home as while he wasn't economical in South Africa, he had probably his best tour of Australia and kept it tight in Sri Lanka and the UAE with success in that period.
But more generally was just intrigued as have occasionally read some say that the pitches Steyn played on in England were flat hence the not great record Steyn has in England, I couldn't remember much apart from SA and Amla racking up runs at The Oval so thought it intriguing to compare given you've got someone who exploits movement so well in Anderson playing for England.
Of course, things like batting lineups at the time, being especially unlucky or lucky with dropped catches might play a role too but the only time apart from also when Anderson tours South Africa during Steyn's career where you will have anything close to a like-for-like comparison.
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" 2012 was well within peak anderson period. 2010 onwards he's been consistently great."
A look at Anderson's Test bowling average, year by year, suggest that, while effective in 2010 and 2011, he had a bit of a slump in 2012 and 2013. I still maintain he has been consistently at his best from 2014 on.
A look at Anderson's Test bowling average, year by year, suggest that, while effective in 2010 and 2011, he had a bit of a slump in 2012 and 2013. I still maintain he has been consistently at his best from 2014 on.
Of his 14 Tests in 2012 he did have 9 of them away in the UAE, Sri Lanka and India in that year of 2012 so think its more a case of one series vs South Africa and then bowling in conditions less favourable for him. The overall series averages for him minus that South Africa series in 2012 were
27.67 - Tour of UAE
21.78 - Tour of Sri Lanka
26.89 - Home Series v West Indies
30.25 - Tour of India
Home Average for 2013 was 25.25 - perhaps a slight dip but at the same time he was playing New Zealand and Australia who will be more competitive than some other touring sides in England. Furthermore, that was a year they had 14 Tests, 7 at home, 7 away - the 7 Tests away - 3 in New Zealand and 4 in Australia - two countries Anderson doesn't have a sensational record in. It seems more a case of him having bad years in terms of tours with the places he wouldn't want to tour in the same year in 2012 and 2013 and having more away Tests in 2012 and an equal share in 2013 means his home record will not skew the overall average more in his favour. In 2014, for example, he takes 3-113 across 2 innings in the final Ashes Test in Sydney then goes on to play 7 more Tests in 2014 all of them at home.
27.67 - Tour of UAE
21.78 - Tour of Sri Lanka
26.89 - Home Series v West Indies
30.25 - Tour of India
Home Average for 2013 was 25.25 - perhaps a slight dip but at the same time he was playing New Zealand and Australia who will be more competitive than some other touring sides in England. Furthermore, that was a year they had 14 Tests, 7 at home, 7 away - the 7 Tests away - 3 in New Zealand and 4 in Australia - two countries Anderson doesn't have a sensational record in. It seems more a case of him having bad years in terms of tours with the places he wouldn't want to tour in the same year in 2012 and 2013 and having more away Tests in 2012 and an equal share in 2013 means his home record will not skew the overall average more in his favour. In 2014, for example, he takes 3-113 across 2 innings in the final Ashes Test in Sydney then goes on to play 7 more Tests in 2014 all of them at home.
cnerd123
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30 votes for Anderson vs 13 for Haze. Atleast 8 of the 13 hail from the land of the Kookaburra. Don't read into it.
Burgey
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Have you only just posted in here now because, like Anderson, you were dropped for the duration of the first test vs SL?