akilana
State Captain
wouldn't know. Dhoni or Bevan were not in a situation like that ever so hard to tell.
-
Welcome to the Cricket Web forums, one of the biggest forums in the world dedicated to cricket.
You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join the Cricket Web community today!
If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.
Is MS Dhoni an ATG OdI batsmen?
- Thread starter RK_123
- Start date
OverratedSanity
Request Your Custom Title Now!
1 wicket left and only a few runs to get to win? Sure, they've been in that situation.
5th Match: Australia v West Indies at Sydney, Jan 1, 1996 | Cricket Scorecard | ESPN Cricinfo
Final: India v Sri Lanka at Port of Spain, Jul 11, 2013 | Cricket Scorecard | ESPN Cricinfo
Not in a WC though, granted
That one brain fade moment might have well costed them a world cup and it was since then only that Australian side kept dominating SA till 2008 before Smith won his team their first series win in Australia.
honestbharani
Whatever it takes!!!
One of the least considered but excellent points when discussing ODI cricket between the 90s and later.
viriya
International Captain
It still isn't how you evaluate a career.
Red
The normal awards that everyone else has
Why?
viriya
International Captain
Why not? His record is exceptional.
GotSpin
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
It's not because Bevan didn't have a problem against the short ball
weldone
Hall of Fame Member
especially given he played an awesome knock in the same match to give SA a chance from an almost hopeless situation
Red
The normal awards that everyone else has
I think he was an excellent ODI bowler, and I've have him in an Aust ATG team, but saying he's the GOAT is a tad too far imo.
I'd have McGrath, Garner, Wasim, Donald, Pollock, Ambrose and Hadlee ahead of him by varying margins.
viriya
International Captain
I think you are overrating earlier era bowlers (Garner, Ambrose, hadlee) and underrating strike rate.
I think Lee is at least in the same tier of all these bowlers.
stephen
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
I never said that Bevan was the fastest scorer. He scored at an acceptable rate for his era. In fact the truth is that he scored at the rate he needed to to win is games. And that's what cricket is about.
Dhoni has been very impressive in his career but ignoring his keeping he hasn't done anything than hasn't been done by others.
50+ averages in Bevan's era:
Bevan
50+ averages is Dhoni's era:
ABDV
Kohli
Babar
Trott
Dhoni
Rayudu
Amla
What's more, other than in New Zealand, Dhoni's average outside Asia is way worse than his average inside Asia.
That's to take nothing away from Dhoni's accomplishments. He's one of the two best keeper-batsmen ever to have played the game but suggesting that he's as good as Bevan with the bat is laughable.
stephen
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Out of interest, here is the list of batsmen who have batted since 2010 from positions 4-6 using the same criteria (average over 35).
Batting records | One-Day Internationals | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPN Cricinfo
As you can see, most players are striking between 80 and 90. When I said that 80 was an acceptable strike rate for a #4 batsman even in this era I may have been under, but not by much. 85 is average and only the freaks have a strike rate over 90. This is with modern bats and the batsman-centric laws.
Yes, on the surface Bevan had a poor strike ratebut when you look deeper, Bevan struck at the rate he needed to to win us games of cricket in a low scoring era. There is plenty of evidence to suggest that he would have done so at a higher rate if needed.
Batting records | One-Day Internationals | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPN Cricinfo
As you can see, most players are striking between 80 and 90. When I said that 80 was an acceptable strike rate for a #4 batsman even in this era I may have been under, but not by much. 85 is average and only the freaks have a strike rate over 90. This is with modern bats and the batsman-centric laws.
Yes, on the surface Bevan had a poor strike ratebut when you look deeper, Bevan struck at the rate he needed to to win us games of cricket in a low scoring era. There is plenty of evidence to suggest that he would have done so at a higher rate if needed.
weldone
Hall of Fame Member
like 1996 WC final?
viriya
International Captain
Why are you ignoring the SR when picking those players. 50+ average at high SR at lower order is non existent. All the other examples you give are top or middle order batsmen.
Just focusing on the average is very deceving especially for lower order batsmen.
Black_Warrior
Cricketer Of The Year
Not really mate. You are using one off outlier instances to set a benchmarks. That's not how benchmarks are set.
Jadeja smashing Waqar one day for 22 runs does not make it any more of a benchmark than Dravid smashing Sri Lanka at over 100 strike rate in 99 World Cup. That was not the norm then. It's very much a norm now and then some.
Never said Bevan's game had no defect. All I said was 35 off 49 back in 96 was not the disaster that it is now. A good indication is how that knock was analysed during it's time and it was not described as a disaster that led to Australia losing the World Cup.
If looking at performances in the context of it's time seems revisionist, then there's not much to add to this conversation.