weldone
Hall of Fame Member
Absolutely. He's the 3rd pure batsman I'd select after Root and Cook.
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**Official** Sri Lanka in England and Ireland 2016
- Thread starter Howe_zat
- Start date
flibbertyjibber
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All the press seem to say he is and they are usually correct when they predict stuff like this. I think it is wrong and harsh but little we can do about it.
Stapel
International Regular
The thinking is this:
Since England have a more than decent all-rounder in Stokes, there is no need, at all, to have a spinner who can do a huge workload in not-so-spin-friendly conditions. And Moeen is good enough to exploit spin-friendly conditions. And, of course, he can bat. Alltogether it's good thinking, imho.
If there would be an obvious 1st choice for a spinner (like Swann was), things might be different. But there isn't afaik.
StephenZA
Hall of Fame Member
That makes sense if there is no first choice spinner.
Probably not the thread for it, but is their a dearth of top quality spinners atm. I think of Ashwin, Herath and Yasir Shah. But none of them are truly amazing? Or were we just spoilt with Warne, Murli?
theegyptian
International Vice-Captain
I'd be surprised if Vince at 3 works. Gets out playing big drives way too much for someone who will bat 3. He hasn't exactly banged the door down with a load of runs or looked entirely convincing since going upto div 1.
However no-one outside Cook, Root, Stokes and Bairstow looks a solid bet at this point.
Ballance continues to get his technique shredded to pieces by press guys but still tends to produce a reasonable amount of runs and does average 47.76 in test cricket.
At this point even Hales' most fervent backers don't think he'll work out but talk about giving him 3 more tests.
Compton's got this too intense thing going on, will only ever average 30 @ 35sr, and seems to have no backers at this point.
Then you've got a load of guys who really don't really have the experience. Randoms like Bell-Drummond, Westley have never played div 1 cricket and don't exactly have stellar records. You only have to look at some of the guys who've gone up to div 1 and struggled to see that will be a massive gamble. If they really want to gamble on someone young (and I wouldn't at this point on what I've seen) but I'd go Duckett. He looks to have that something special imo and isn't your typical opener.
I'd prob just stay with Compton and Hales and bring in Vince at 5.
I always liked Robson so if they thought he'd improved I wouldn't complain about him getting another chance especially as he has experience in Australia and done well on lions tours in Asia (given the next two winters tours are in India and Aus).
However no-one outside Cook, Root, Stokes and Bairstow looks a solid bet at this point.
Ballance continues to get his technique shredded to pieces by press guys but still tends to produce a reasonable amount of runs and does average 47.76 in test cricket.
At this point even Hales' most fervent backers don't think he'll work out but talk about giving him 3 more tests.
Compton's got this too intense thing going on, will only ever average 30 @ 35sr, and seems to have no backers at this point.
Then you've got a load of guys who really don't really have the experience. Randoms like Bell-Drummond, Westley have never played div 1 cricket and don't exactly have stellar records. You only have to look at some of the guys who've gone up to div 1 and struggled to see that will be a massive gamble. If they really want to gamble on someone young (and I wouldn't at this point on what I've seen) but I'd go Duckett. He looks to have that something special imo and isn't your typical opener.
I'd prob just stay with Compton and Hales and bring in Vince at 5.
I always liked Robson so if they thought he'd improved I wouldn't complain about him getting another chance especially as he has experience in Australia and done well on lions tours in Asia (given the next two winters tours are in India and Aus).
grecian
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Well I disagree with everyone.
I think you go for Hales because he's the best option, not just settling. Look I've never been his biggest fan, but in the end Compo was utterly turgid towards the end of that series, I just don't see a future.
Hales has everything to be the best opening partner for Cook, aggression, can go onto score big (not shown it in Tests yet, but has done in other forms), and most importantly is the man that stands up in the Championship over 2 seasons. I think that's pretty important, it's why I now favour him, it's what got Compo in the side and now he's not doing that.
BTW I still don't think Hales will make it, but can understand why he's considered above the other options for now.
Oh and I'd go with Westley, not sure it's as knee-jerk as some are suggesting, he was being talked of last year, went on a Lions tour, only 27 and scoring runs in a glut. Not too displeased if Vince gets it, but last year was pretty depressing when he was practically benighted as the next-in-line. He's pretty to watch there's no doubt. The ton against Yorkshire probably swinging it for him.
I think you go for Hales because he's the best option, not just settling. Look I've never been his biggest fan, but in the end Compo was utterly turgid towards the end of that series, I just don't see a future.
Hales has everything to be the best opening partner for Cook, aggression, can go onto score big (not shown it in Tests yet, but has done in other forms), and most importantly is the man that stands up in the Championship over 2 seasons. I think that's pretty important, it's why I now favour him, it's what got Compo in the side and now he's not doing that.
BTW I still don't think Hales will make it, but can understand why he's considered above the other options for now.
Oh and I'd go with Westley, not sure it's as knee-jerk as some are suggesting, he was being talked of last year, went on a Lions tour, only 27 and scoring runs in a glut. Not too displeased if Vince gets it, but last year was pretty depressing when he was practically benighted as the next-in-line. He's pretty to watch there's no doubt. The ton against Yorkshire probably swinging it for him.
Kippax
Cricketer Of The Year
Yeah he'll trap Kaushal Silva in front with the surprise inswinger as well, apparently. Admittedly the seam's position suggests natural variation, rather than a teenage Jimmy Anderson at work.
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Kippax
Cricketer Of The Year
Sky NZ to possibly show quite a bit of the English domestic cricket this winter btw. Even last week's televised red ball match was on.
www.skysports.com/watch/cricket-on-sky
www.skysports.com/watch/cricket-on-sky
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Howe_zat
Audio File
I pretty much agree with all of this actually, except the Westley bit
Yeah I am in agreement on Compton, was not really a fan of him coming back and nothing he did in South Africa did anything to change my mind. I certainly don't want him at 3, said it earlier in the thread but if we are going to have a 30 something I would much rather it be Bell, if he was not injured I would bring him back at 5, Vince at 3.
Really I want Root to bat 3, but we know that is not going to happen so Vince is going to have to go straight in there, his form did actually pick up quite a bit when he moved there last year. I guess Ballance at 5, but it is a strange one.
Really I want Root to bat 3, but we know that is not going to happen so Vince is going to have to go straight in there, his form did actually pick up quite a bit when he moved there last year. I guess Ballance at 5, but it is a strange one.
grecian
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
The Duckett idea is intriguing though, bin Hales and Compo and get Bairstow to bat 3 without the gloves, and then Vince/Westley/Ballance / whomever at 5.
Won't happen, but I really really don't rate Bairstow with the gloves so it would make me happy. Give us the attacking foil to Cook as opener too.
Won't happen, but I really really don't rate Bairstow with the gloves so it would make me happy. Give us the attacking foil to Cook as opener too.
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grecian
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Yeah, I've said that before, but in the end it's probably too soon, same with Joe Clarke in the middle-order. Yet with our volatile batting line-up who knows what can happen over a long Summer.
Hales, as I said, really should start and get the Lankan series, but there's plenty of potentially interesting picks around.
flibbertyjibber
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As I have said we seem to lack 23-27 players, all the promising players are younger and most are still teenagers. I guess we could throw one in and let him develop like we did with Bell and Broad (yes they are younger but may be worth it) or we go back to Ballance and play Vince.
Bairstow at 3 would be pretty mad. I suppose they could do the put him at 5 and bring back Buttler thing but he just had his best series for England by miles at 7, I don't think is keeping is so bad that it can't be worked on.
grecian
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
I don't see why it would be mad really, in the end, I'm not overtly happy with him being 7, doesn't work for me, want him in earlier.
I clearly do feel his 'keeping is appalling, and I'm sick of waiting for it to get better. He keeps for Yorkshire, Buttler made big strides almost right away when he first did for England.
theegyptian
International Vice-Captain
Wouldn't surprise me if Clarke is on the same path as the likes of Root, Cook etc to earn a callup at a young age. Has got a lot of praise from different sources. Motivated and quick to learn are often used ways of describing him. Still I reckon it will be at least a year if everything goes perfectly.
Duckett given his disciplinary issues will likely have to go on a couple of lions tours to prove he has the maturity and motivation.
What you don't want is them festering in second division cricket for a two or three years if the selectors think they are good enough/will become good enough. Clarke debuted in div 1 last year and did decently and Duckett did ok in his one year in div 1 as a teenager - but they're both in div 2 now and Duckett in particular is at a struggling county.
This year at least I'd think the opportunity will be there for Vince, Hales, Malan, Bell-Drummond, Westley, Ballance... whoever to prove they're international class.
Duckett given his disciplinary issues will likely have to go on a couple of lions tours to prove he has the maturity and motivation.
What you don't want is them festering in second division cricket for a two or three years if the selectors think they are good enough/will become good enough. Clarke debuted in div 1 last year and did decently and Duckett did ok in his one year in div 1 as a teenager - but they're both in div 2 now and Duckett in particular is at a struggling county.
This year at least I'd think the opportunity will be there for Vince, Hales, Malan, Bell-Drummond, Westley, Ballance... whoever to prove they're international class.
My thoughts:
So my XI looks something like this:
Medium-term, you hope one of the three mentioned above (Lees, DBD, Duckett) force their way in, or that Robson is a worthwhile pick-and-stick. If Buttler comes good in FC cricket and Vince proves himself, he shifts to 3, Bairstow plays at 5 without the gloves, Buttler comes back in. Compton is basically a reliable placeholder for a couple of years.
- Duckett, Bell-Drummond, Lees etc. all need a couple more years to build up the body of work to get themselves into the Test team on merit, rather than Hail Mary potential. Bringing them in now is a surefire way to continue the extended turning of the Wheel.
- Hales is **** and shouldn't be picked.
- Compton isn't a great option, but you know what you're getting.
- Vince should bat at 5. Debuting people at 3 is stupid.
- Ballance isn't ready for a recall.
- Robson might be.
- Carberry never really did anything wrong and was initially groomed for the post-Strauss role. That should count for something. Could Rogers him. Ah, balls, he's notionally retired from internationals via the MCL.
So my XI looks something like this:
- Cook
- Robson
- Compton
- Root
- Vince
- Stokes
- Bairstow +
- Moeen
- Broad
- Finn
- Anderson
Medium-term, you hope one of the three mentioned above (Lees, DBD, Duckett) force their way in, or that Robson is a worthwhile pick-and-stick. If Buttler comes good in FC cricket and Vince proves himself, he shifts to 3, Bairstow plays at 5 without the gloves, Buttler comes back in. Compton is basically a reliable placeholder for a couple of years.