Sanga retiring, where does he place?

[honestbharani]

You say that like that's an undesirable outcome

I wish he was still playing for that very reason tbh...

 

[honestbharani]

Lara > Sachin >> Sanga > S Waugh >> Ponting > Dravid > Younis/Chanders/Kallis


for me...

 

[Pratters]

Steve Waugh was the best test batsman for a while in the 90s. People forget it when they start going gaga over SRT or Lara as the case may be. When we talk about the best batsmen of the 90s, Steve Waugh is an after thought at times, which shouldn't be the case.

 

[bagapath]

Outside of home conditions test cricketers play in seven other non-minnow nations. Of these seven, sanga could not master three: India, West Indies and South Africa. This is the reality. Despite that eye popping average and record scores, he was definitely not a man for all conditions.

As an all time top 20 batsman, sanga will always be compared with his contemporaries like tendulkar, lara, ponting, dravid, kallis etc and will always come fourth on that list behind sachin, brian and ricky.

 

[Furball]

4th to those 3 is still pretty special.

 

[viriya]

Outside of home conditions test cricketers play in seven other non-minnow nations. Of these seven, sanga could not master three: India, West Indies and South Africa. This is the reality. Despite that eye popping average and record scores, he was definitely not a man for all conditions.

As an all time top 20 batsman, sanga will always be compared with his contemporaries like tendulkar, lara, ponting, dravid, kallis etc and will always come fourth on that list behind sachin, brian and ricky.

Yea because playing a grand total of 4 test matches in WI (last one in 2008) tells you a lot about how he couldn't master all conditions. The only legitimate point is for SA where he played 8 tests.

 

[NZTailender]

Sangakarra averages 44.6 outside Asia and versus teams barring Zimbabwe. This includes an average of 40 in England, 35 in South Africa. Even in India, he has an average record. He is amazing in Sri Lanka, Australia and v Pakistan. He was an elegant player to watch. I loved that aspect. For some it was even irritating (the Samiuddin article on it is most interesting). However, he was a player who could have achieved more. Raw numbers wise you can look at the big double centuries and think what more could he have done, but that's not going deep into it. Tendulkar averages 50.90 plus in 70 plus games for the same.

Here, I fixed it for you.

 

[Contra]

Actually Sanga's home record, a bit like his away record is also split between extremes

Sanga @ home vs Sanga Away

Australia - 30 / 60
NZ - 37 / 61
Eng - 39 / 41
SA - 60 / 35
Ind - 69 / 35
Pak - 76 / 86
WI - 68 / 34

UAE - 62

Just something worth discussing on I guess, it's weird how against some countries he's done well away but sucked at home and vice versa. He's pretty much bossed Zim, Bangladesh and Pakistan both home and away.

It seems some of the better bowling attacks in recent times have got the better of him, with his less than impressive tours against Aus, NZ, SA at home.

 

[Pratters]

Here, I fixed it for you.

While that's lovely, if we don't pick 30% of the tests of Tendulkar or Dravid with x criteria, they too will have a more favourable stat measure. For instance, maybe remove from Tendulkar's stats 3 years around when he has his tennis elbow and his stats would rise further.

 

[NZTailender]

While that's lovely, if we don't pick 30% of the tests of Tendulkar or Dravid with x criteria, they too will have a more favourable stat measure. For instance, maybe remove from Tendulkar's stats 3 years around when he has his tennis elbow and his stats would rise further.

You're being rather glib about something as significant as having to manage both wicket-keeping and batting in the top order essentially as the teams lynchpin (completely different to the role Gilchrist had, for instance).

When he was freed of gloves he did significantly better in these problematic locales that you've pointed out. South Africa still a blip on his radar though.

 

[Jono]

4th to those 3 is still pretty special.

haha yeah. it amazes me that people don't get that.

 

[Ikki]

Tendulkar-Lara-Ponting; then Waugh-Kallis-Dravid-Sanga.

 

[AldoRaine18]

Yeah not sure why Ponting is barely mentioned in this thread? Comfortably ahead of Sanga for me, which is no shame for the Lankan given what Punter did during his peak.

 

[Contra]

Yeah not sure why Ponting is barely mentioned in this thread? Comfortably ahead of Sanga for me, which is no shame for the Lankan given what Punter did during his peak.

Ponting's decline was over an extended period of time, both him and Dravid become average after their 2002-2006 peaks with them having one massive series each (Dravid in England and Ponting against India).

 

[Ikki]

Ponting has one of the most complete records of all time. Basically the only place he was poor, home or away, was in India. Even then, it was more of a curiosity because he was more than good against spin and didn't have a problem in the subcontinent as a whole.

 

[bagapath]

Yea because playing a grand total of 4 test matches in WI (last one in 2008) tells you a lot about how he couldn't master all conditions. The only legitimate point is for SA where he played 8 tests.

okay, then let us agree that he didn't master australia coz he played only three tests there.
you can't have it both ways.

the point is, he was pedestrian in india, west indies and south africa. that is always going to work against him in these arguments.

 

[OverratedSanity]

You're being rather glib about something as significant as having to manage both wicket-keeping and batting in the top order essentially as the teams lynchpin (completely different to the role Gilchrist had, for instance).

When he was freed of gloves he did significantly better in these problematic locales that you've pointed out. South Africa still a blip on his radar though.

Yeah but when you're comparing him with guys like Tendulkar, Kallis, Dravid who had so many amazing overseas series, he does suffer in comparison to them when it comes to the overseas record. I rate him above Dravid and Kallis because I think he has that extra gear to take it to the opposition and really hurt them quickly, but you can't ignore that purely when it comes to overseas performances he's slightly inferior to them. As is even Lara.

 

[kingkallis]

Curious to hear what people have to say on his place among the greats. I thought he had a genuine chance of retiring as the clear #2 after Bradman had he stuck around for a 1-2 more years and pushed his average close to 60, but since he's signing off now I rate him at the same level as Tendulkar and Lara, not above or below.

How did you come up with the speculation of Sanga reaching to the avg. of 60 in 2 years? You haven't seen the declines of Ponting, Clarke in recent times?

 

[kingkallis]

For me,

Lara > Tendulkar = Kallis = Ponting > Steve Waugh = Dravid = Sangakkara = Younis = Smith > Hayden = Chanderpaul = Inzamam = Laxman

 

[viriya]

okay, then let us agree that he didn't master australia coz he played only three tests there.
you can't have it both ways.

the point is, he was pedestrian in india, west indies and south africa. that is always going to work against him in these arguments.

Did I make a point that he mastered Australia? I'm making the point that breaking down by country makes no sense because of the small sample size.