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*Official* English Football Season 2013-14
- Thread starter GIMH
- Start date
sledger
Spanish_Vicente
wpdavid
Hall of Fame Member
Shame you weren't around to point that out to hacks like Beckenbauer and Cruyff during the last WC, as they were very much of the view that the descreasing nuimber of Englishmen in the EPL was advesely affecting the national side.
And no, it it isn't new, but the extent of it is and it's only heading one way.
1970s - we weren't great but a people who know their facts will point out that qualification for tournaments was much tougher then, so it's ludicrously simplistic to argue that we were worse because we missed out on two WCs and a EC.
1980's - we were solid enough on the occasions when Robson managed to work out how the side should look.
In both cases, we had signifcantly better players at our disposal than nowadays.
Spot on, otherwise..
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grecian
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Couldn't disagree more, foreign players in the Prem is a red-herring. We need proper coaching, then these players will flourish in our League.
Back in the day we got by, because everyone played football on the streets, and in the fields, which perversely giving the lack of space pretty much set up for a skill-based five-a-side approach, which is similar to the South Americas nowadays. Now you just don't see it.
If our players had technical expertise they would play, I'm still awaiting the young Englishmen frustrated by our system pissing off elsewhere and becoming World-class, won't happen because in the end, we're the only place that the clod-feeted hoofers can earn any money.
wpdavid
Hall of Fame Member
Surely it's both. There's no way I'm disagreeing with you about the poor training and development over here, as the evidence is always there for all to see. But, as GF mentioned, the rules 20 years ago meant that Man Utd had to invest in Scholes, Beckham et al in a way that simply doesn't happen now. Obviously the 'golden generation' weren't quite as good as we'd hoped, but there was a load more talent coming through in the mid1990s than we're seeing nowadays.
grecian
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
What rules 20 years ago?
Nah, don't agree with the talent in the 90s, few decent players but we had the likes of David Patty, Carlton Palmer and Geoff Thomas playing for England, amongst a lot of other dross. I gave my reasons why we possibly had better individual talents (kids just playing more), back then. Still in the Eighties we had ****e like the Gary Stevens and Terry Fenwick, and Des Walker was utterly found out when he went abroad because his ball skills were so ****ing awful.
Again see no correlation, between foreigners in the Prem, and the current dearth. You totally ignored my point about no-one moving away to become decent, because it's pretty key, plenty of Leagues out there in the EU, why aren't they giving it a go. Hate rose-tintedness we've struggled for the same reasons for years, lack of technical ability and ball-retention, which is off course linked intrinsically.
Good home-produced players save clubs millions, but they're mostly ruined by the time they get that far.
Uppercut
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The logic behind this doesn't add up. Adding foreigners doesn't make domestic players worse any more than adding cream to a cake makes the rest of the cake taste ****. They might play for smaller clubs than they would have in the 1980s, but not because they're worse players, only because the standard at the top is better than it used to be. The whole league has been taken to a higher level.
Honestly I think England's isolation really held them back in the 70s and 80s. You look at the effect Cruyff had on Barcelona and where it's got them now, and England completely missed the boat on all of that. There were all these tactical and technical innovations and England was left behind by its own insularity, stuck humping it up to a big man in a 4-4-2. It looks to me like the Talksport brigade have this one the wrong way around.
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Itstl
Furball
Evil Scotsman
The big issue is that there's 1,100 coaches in England with a UEFA Pro License.
In Germany there's 5,500, in Spain there's over 11,000.
There's various cultural **** ups in English football as well - chasing middle class boys out of the game means that in the future you're going to be picking from an ever dwindling talent pool.
In Germany there's 5,500, in Spain there's over 11,000.
There's various cultural **** ups in English football as well - chasing middle class boys out of the game means that in the future you're going to be picking from an ever dwindling talent pool.
grecian
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Really don't get what your saying here, unless it's irn-y, never been a better time for the middle-class in this sport.
Anyway, I can't really moan about this England performance, so I'm a bit pissed off. I actually think woy isn't an awful manager, probably does a more solid job than someone like Redknapp would. I'd still prefer Capello or another top quality forn coach.
Scaly piscine
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Welbeck still a complete ****wit.
Neil Pickup
Cricket Web Moderator
Moldova's keeper very reminiscent of what I imagine my goalkeeping looks like in third-person.