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Contentious decisions, UDRS, Wambulance Thread.

straw man

Hall of Fame Member
Anyone suggesting DRS reviews are put in the umpire's hands need repeatedly slapping across the face with wet fish. Haddin the latest with this supremely ****witted idea.
Completely agree if they're talking about putting reviews in the on-field umpires' hands. Such a ****ing stupid idea with flaws that should be blindingly obvious to anyone.

The idea of having a quick-witted off-field umpire to immediately assess from replays (within say 20 seconds - possible?) whether a decision requires closer inspection or not, and if so to refer it for the full third-umpire treatment, has some potential merit imo. Some limitations too though.

However my current position is that the current DRS is, like democracy, the worst possible apart from all the others. A couple of minor tweaks perhaps but overall is fairly good.
 

Burgey

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FFS you aren't wasting reviews if it turns out it's an umpire's call. It's ridiculous to suggest otherwise. Australia made one poor review, the Bairstow lbw in the second dig. The others they used were hardly appalling. People ask Clarke why he reviewed his caught behind - well, as he said, he didn't think he hit the bloody thing. It's really not that hard to work out.

Bell reviewed that lbw in the second dig after consulting with his batting partner. You could tell he was 50/50 on it, and you can't blame him because it looked stone dead, but he did it because of the state of the game, not because he thought it was a howler. And good luck to him, it worked.
 

Bahnz

Hall of Fame Member
TBH, I'm happy with the system as is, with two reviews, just think that they should have a proper analyst to do it. Oh and people should keep their reviews for lbws if it's Umpires Call that saves or kills.
I'm opposed to teams not losing a review for Umpire's Call outcomes. It'll only incentivise captains and players to use the DRS more, further slowing down the game for the sake of querying 50:50 decisions that no one would be that upset about in the first place.
 

grecian

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
I'm opposed to teams not losing a review for Umpire's Call outcomes. It'll only incentivise captains and players to use the DRS more, further slowing down the game for the sake of querying 50:50 decisions that no one would be that upset about in the first place.
Not really, because if it's not umpires call they'll lose it. Personally if it's Umpire call, I don't see that as frivolous. If it's umpires call we're talking a matter of inches to it being a justified call.
 

Bahnz

Hall of Fame Member
Not really, because if it's not umpires call they'll lose it. Personally if it's Umpire call, I don't see that as frivolous. If it's umpires call we're talking a matter of inches to it being a justified call.
Struggling to follow what you're saying here. If the DRS laws are changed so that it's less likely that you'll lose a review in the event of a referral, why wouldn't you be more inclined to call for one? You'd get the same benefit (a chance of a decision being overturned) with a smaller risk of the cost (losing a review for your side).

Basically, I think that the DRS should only be used in response to an umpiring decisions that is obviously incorrect. For situations like the Bell and Watson lbw appeals, it's a case of the fewer reviews, the better imo.
 

grecian

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Struggling to follow what you're saying here. If the DRS laws are changed so that it's less likely that you'll lose a review in the event of a referral, why wouldn't you be more inclined to call for one? You'd get the same benefit (a chance of a decision being overturned) with a smaller risk of the cost (losing a review for your side).

Basically, I think that the DRS should only be used in response to an umpiring decisions that is obviously incorrect. For situations like the Bell and Watson lbw appeals, it's a case of the fewer reviews, the better imo.
Because you still lose one if it isn't UC, so you're still going to lose them.

Clearly we disagree on how many is acceptable, I would rather have more and less shockers like this one TBH. Umpires Calls are still not going to make it unlimited, and again I don't think it's a bad review if it's inches, sometimes centimetres from being right.
 

Bahnz

Hall of Fame Member
BBC Sport - Ashes 2013: Is technology spoiling the spirit of the game?

The article is ****e, but the DRS success table is interesting with India's stats quite funny.
Wow, the fact that no country has managed a 33% success rate with their reviews is a bit telling.

I wonder if things might be a bit better if you allowed a certain number of reviews for different types of dismissals. By far the most speculative reviews occur for lbw decisions, so maybe allow only 1 review for lbws, and 2 reviews for other methods of dismissal (usually caught behind)?
 

Howe_zat

Audio File
Been thinking about the walking thing.

Walking has a place in most, non-Test cricket because, the way I see it, an umpiring **** up just doesn't feel like part of the game. It is, of course, but it doesn't sit right. You feel as though something other than batting, bowling and fielding has done something. That's what was good about Bell being recalled when he was run out against India - since it seemed like a non-cricketing ****up, the Indians thought they were right and the rules were wrong in this case by recalling him.

But when you bring DRS into the hands of the players, it becomes unarguably a part of their game. Players have to be tactical about how to use it - either aggressively, aiming to get any chance that comes their way, or defensively, aiming to let the odd chance slide to make sure they get the ones that are there for sure. If you choose the former, and then you miss out on an obvious decision down the line, the opposition is not only within his rights to punish your poor strategy, but pretty much obligated to. It's no different to having your keeper stand up to a quick when he's not good enough and then watching the byes roll down - walking in this case is like not running for those byes. It's not only unnecessary, it's a failure to punish poor cricketing strategy.

I don't like this, really, at all. I don't want use-of-DRS-skill to become part of the game alongside batting, bowling and fielding, so I don't want it to be a players' decision. And I want there to be the option to walk - just like "withdrawing the appeal", I think there's something a little bit special about how sometimes, you can say what feels right is better than the literal rules. But as long as DRS is in the players' hands, we can't have it. It just doesn't make sense.
 
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FaaipDeOiad

Hall of Fame Member
I think there's something to that article. I've never been a DRS fan but leaving aside the discussion of its value in terms of reducing the number of contentious decisions, it definitely hurts the experience of the game a spectator I think. The umpire's decision on an appeal is part of the thrill of watching the game. Knowing, as you do now, that it's effectively irrelevant and it's the third umpire that counts definitely reduces some of the excitement associated with each ball as its bowled. Essentially the same way as a run out appeal isn't exciting because you know it's getting reviewed 100% of the time, you don't really give a **** about that moment after the ball hits the stumps. Sport hinges on those moments of excitement. But there's no doubt it's not going anywhere so it's just something people have to get used to.
 

Scaly piscine

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
I think there's something to that article. I've never been a DRS fan but leaving aside the discussion of its value in terms of reducing the number of contentious decisions, it definitely hurts the experience of the game a spectator I think. The umpire's decision on an appeal is part of the thrill of watching the game. Knowing, as you do now, that it's effectively irrelevant and it's the third umpire that counts definitely reduces some of the excitement associated with each ball as its bowled. Essentially the same way as a run out appeal isn't exciting because you know it's getting reviewed 100% of the time, you don't really give a **** about that moment after the ball hits the stumps. Sport hinges on those moments of excitement. But there's no doubt it's not going anywhere so it's just something people have to get used to.
The excitement is still there it's just different. Different != worse.

You can't tell me it wasn't exciting to see Haddin's wicket reviewed, seeing the replays, then OUT.

If it had been a repeat of the Clarke review, where he'd blatantly nicked it and it was reviewed then it might have been a bit of a dampener.
 
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grecian

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Yeah, agreement with Scaly here, I feel you get doubly excited myself, and you should not have the sickening feeling that the excitement was caused by a wholly wrong call.
 

Top_Cat

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Adam Gilchrist: The DRS is not the solution, it's part of the problem | Cricinfo Magazine | ESPN Cricinfo

Me personally, wrong decisions piss me off so I'm all for DRS as a howler reduction measure. So many games gain in drama from wrong decisions but only in retrospect I think. For example, the 1-run win by the WI in Adelaide was infuriating for me, not a celebration of Test cricket at its finest; not for the obvious dubious decision against McDermott but because McDermott should have been out LBW early in his knock. That the game was artificially close due to some poor decisions sucked the fun out the contest.

Quite happy to sacrifice some of that tension for more correct officiating. And we're already seeing it, the standards of what constitutes a howler have basically been redefined because certain types of decisions you don't even see any more. Glad to see the back of **** like this, this and this.

EDIT: And this and this. Jesus.
 
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Furball

Evil Scotsman
Been thinking about the walking thing.

Walking has a place in most, non-Test cricket because, the way I see it, an umpiring **** up just doesn't feel like part of the game. It is, of course, but it doesn't sit right. You feel as though something other than batting, bowling and fielding has done something. That's what was good about Bell being recalled when he was run out against India - since it seemed like a non-cricketing ****up, the Indians thought they were right and the rules were wrong in this case by recalling him.

But when you bring DRS into the hands of the players, it becomes unarguably a part of their game. Players have to be tactical about how to use it - either aggressively, aiming to get any chance that comes their way, or defensively, aiming to let the odd chance slide to make sure they get the ones that are there for sure. If you choose the former, and then you miss out on an obvious decision down the line, the opposition is not only within his rights to punish your poor strategy, but pretty much obligated to. It's no different to having your keeper stand up to a quick when he's not good enough and then watching the byes roll down - walking in this case is like not running for those byes. It's not only unnecessary, it's a failure to punish poor cricketing strategy.

I don't like this, really, at all. I don't want use-of-DRS-skill to become part of the game alongside batting, bowling and fielding, so I don't want it to be a players' decision. And I want there to be the option to walk - just like "withdrawing the appeal", I think there's something a little bit special about how sometimes, you can say what feels right is better than the literal rules. But as long as DRS is in the players' hands, we can't have it. It just doesn't make sense.
Walking has no place at any level of cricket because a batsman can't just stand there and expect to face the next delivery if he's wrongly given out.

If fielding sides were more honest with their appeals then I'd maybe see the point but I don't get why the onus is on batsmen alone to be honest.
 

vic_orthdox

Global Moderator
Nah, The decision per DRS isn't nearly as exciting re: a wicket. I mean, twice I had to watch the Poms jump up and down on the spot like school girls coz they didn't really know what to do, the spontaneity of the wicket is gone. Funny that a few English people are saying that as I sort of associate that feeling with a goal in soccer/football.
 

vic_orthdox

Global Moderator
A decision your way via DRS is sort of like throwing your leg over the missus for a second time, it's more stressful and never feels quite as good as the one you got a little bit earlier.
 
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grecian

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Nah, The decision per DRS isn't nearly as exciting re: a wicket. I mean, twice I had to watch the Poms jump up and down on the spot like school girls coz they didn't really know what to do, the spontaneity of the wicket is gone. Funny that a few English people are saying that as I sort of associate that feeling with a goal in soccer/football.
Well, I always check offside flag and the ref, before I properly celebrate, but then I'm a negative bastard. Been caught out too many times, Sol Campbell in particular.
 

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