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*Official* English Football Season 2012-13
- Thread starter marc71178
- Start date
sledger
Spanish_Vicente
BBC Sport - Has the evolution of the beautiful game been for better or worse?
Quite an interesting piece, that. Though I'm skeptical of all the "back in t'day" type anecdotes that get bandied about all too frequently, there are some observations in there I definitely agree with.
Obviously I can't really comment from experience on the changes undergone since the 70s and 80s, but there are notable differences between when I started watching in the early/mid 90s and the present. It was just the other day, for instance, I was saying to a friend that though the quality of football on display these days is generally (arguably, at least) better than at any other point since I started watching, there's something which is just less "fun" about top level football these days.
I'm not opposed to the amount of money in the game either, per se. I think footballers do earn too much money, ftr, but if the clubs are prepared to pay it, you can hardy blame the players for taking it. And whilst going on about the amount of money in the game etc... is generally quite tedious, or so I find, the big media fanfare and all the cash involved often leads me to forget that I am actually watching a game, rather than a big corporate....thing, dripping in money.
Quite an interesting piece, that. Though I'm skeptical of all the "back in t'day" type anecdotes that get bandied about all too frequently, there are some observations in there I definitely agree with.
Obviously I can't really comment from experience on the changes undergone since the 70s and 80s, but there are notable differences between when I started watching in the early/mid 90s and the present. It was just the other day, for instance, I was saying to a friend that though the quality of football on display these days is generally (arguably, at least) better than at any other point since I started watching, there's something which is just less "fun" about top level football these days.
I'm not opposed to the amount of money in the game either, per se. I think footballers do earn too much money, ftr, but if the clubs are prepared to pay it, you can hardy blame the players for taking it. And whilst going on about the amount of money in the game etc... is generally quite tedious, or so I find, the big media fanfare and all the cash involved often leads me to forget that I am actually watching a game, rather than a big corporate....thing, dripping in money.
Uppercut
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It's mostly just you getting older I reckon. In general the sport's been taken over by the middle classes and been reorientated towards them, with mixed results. I like the improved technique and fitness levels, and the vast improvements in the standard of football journalism. I don't like how someone getting hurt when playing sport is now considered the worst possible thing that can possibly happen ever, and any remote chance of it happening needs to be stamped out completely regardless of the cost to the game. Terraces are a huge loss too, it really hits home when you go to a terraced gaelic or rugby match how much of the experience has been sacrificed for a clearly excessive health+safety measure.
I don't really agree that Premiership ticket prices are too high though. The demand for them is huge, they'd just be bought up and sold at even higher prices by scalps anyway (as they already are). At lower league games that are barely half-full the prices just amount to the club taking advantage of the small core of ultra-loyal fans.
I don't really agree that Premiership ticket prices are too high though. The demand for them is huge, they'd just be bought up and sold at even higher prices by scalps anyway (as they already are). At lower league games that are barely half-full the prices just amount to the club taking advantage of the small core of ultra-loyal fans.
I don't think the Football has got less enjoyable since I have been watching, just this week I have watched 3 fantastic games with the champions league semi-finals and Real Sociedad against Valencia yesterday. Generally I think the standard of entertainment has been really good the past few years. Personally I would say I am lucky enough to enjoy the benefits of the middle class takeover while still feeling a really close connection with my own club.
Could not agree more about terraces, still having terracing is of the very best things about watching Brentford. Clearly stadiums needed vast improvement in the late 80s and 90s but there is now no reason that standing cannot be reintroduced. We are planning on leaving Griffin Park, I completely understand the reasons why but I am no looking forward to it, there may be plans to put some terracing in the new stadium and I really hope this is the case.
Could not agree more about terraces, still having terracing is of the very best things about watching Brentford. Clearly stadiums needed vast improvement in the late 80s and 90s but there is now no reason that standing cannot be reintroduced. We are planning on leaving Griffin Park, I completely understand the reasons why but I am no looking forward to it, there may be plans to put some terracing in the new stadium and I really hope this is the case.
sledger
Spanish_Vicente
I dunno, there's just something a lot more clinical about watching top flight games these days, which is probably something to do with the amount of money involved, albeit not exclusively. I suppose some of it is to do with me getting older, and rose tinted lenses and all that, but there was something about my last trip to watch Arsenal at the Emirates where I felt distinctly like I was a "customer", rather than a fan.
I daresay it will vest my support in Arsenal as long as I live, it's probably too ingrained to ever shake off even if I wanted to, but there's something about all the big stadia and the money and corporatism that means I don't really feel like part of the club. It's why I never use "us" or "we" when speaking.
The bit about getting hurt that you mentioned, however, is also inexorably linked to the amount of money in the game. Footballers are basically assets rather than employees, or, dare I say it, players these days. The stakeholders with the most influence in these matters are of course the clubs, and they're going to do whatever they can to protect their investments. The insurance fees paid out by clubs on player injuries was huge about ten years ago, so hell knows what the average spend is these days. (I realise you probably weren't actually suggesting otherwise, but I think this sort of thing is inevitable so long as money continues to pour in).
Furball
Evil Scotsman
Football is miles better than it was even 10 years ago, never mind 20 years ago. Anyone who attempts to argue otherwise is either drunk on nostalgia or a moron.
The only exception to this rule is ticket prices. It's why I rate the Bundesliga as the best league in Europe. Want to pay €70 plus in the plush seats with the other suits? Great, here's your ticket and here's your seat. Want to get into a top quality game of football for about €15, jump around like a madman and do it in the midst of thousands of likeminded individuals? There's a place for you too, not only has the game not left you behind but you and your kind are actively encouraged by the clubs.
The only exception to this rule is ticket prices. It's why I rate the Bundesliga as the best league in Europe. Want to pay €70 plus in the plush seats with the other suits? Great, here's your ticket and here's your seat. Want to get into a top quality game of football for about €15, jump around like a madman and do it in the midst of thousands of likeminded individuals? There's a place for you too, not only has the game not left you behind but you and your kind are actively encouraged by the clubs.
Furball
Evil Scotsman
On what basis?
I'm coming at it from looking at the highest levels of the game. The game up here, for example, is on its knees and has definitely declined in the last 20 years.
On a related note the changes made to the offside law in around about 2005 are the best thing that's happened to the game in the last 20 years.
GIMH
Norwood's on Fire
I view sports parochially, and it's harder for a lower league side to build upwards now. Still possible, of course - Welsh ****s in the Prem is proof of that, but what we did in the 90s is unfathomable now. I dream of the Championship almost the same way I used to dream of the Prem, and the lower leagues are made up of loanees and 6-month deals.
At the top level we do get a lot of quality now but it's all geared towards an insular sort of competition, like American Sports or something. The pyramid structure of English football will never go away and nor should it but it's not what it once was, IMO.
At the top level we do get a lot of quality now but it's all geared towards an insular sort of competition, like American Sports or something. The pyramid structure of English football will never go away and nor should it but it's not what it once was, IMO.
fredfertang
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Very true - when I told my youngest that when I was 17 a team came out of the second tier to win the league he looked at me like I'd lost my marbles
Furball
Evil Scotsman
Gotcha.
It's a problem even in the Premier League tbf, there's a few teams there to make up the numbers who have no chance of ever winning the thing unless they're bought over by an Arab billionaire.
Having said that, it would be interesting to compare the ladder from this season to 20 years ago to 30 years ago. How many clubs would be dramatically higher or lower in the ladder now than they were back then?
It's a problem even in the Premier League tbf, there's a few teams there to make up the numbers who have no chance of ever winning the thing unless they're bought over by an Arab billionaire.
Having said that, it would be interesting to compare the ladder from this season to 20 years ago to 30 years ago. How many clubs would be dramatically higher or lower in the ladder now than they were back then?
fredfertang
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Good thought - Reading were in the old fourth division
GIMH
Norwood's on Fire
The thing is, I am strongly against 'forced equality' in sports so I don't know what to suggest.
And to answer your question. Off the top of my head the following were all at least one division below us when we were first in what's now the Championship:
Swansea
Cardiff
Stoke
Fulham
Wigan
West Brom
Reading
And to answer your question. Off the top of my head the following were all at least one division below us when we were first in what's now the Championship:
Swansea
Cardiff
Stoke
Fulham
Wigan
West Brom
Reading
Just have to look at all the 'big' clubs floating around the lower leagues to show much things can change. You need the money to make real progress now but this can be sensible investment, it does not have to be stupid money.
The multi-million pound owners are a problem though, have no doubt about that.
The multi-million pound owners are a problem though, have no doubt about that.
fredfertang
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
City spent a few years in the third tier not so long ago, as did Villa and the Toon