Best against the best

[Kylez]

8 overs was remaining still. Mcgrath couldn't have survived 8 overs surely even if he was not out .Tbh how India won that series is still beyond me. Kumble did not play in that series. In those days kumble used to win India at home. So it was still amazing India defeated OZ with one man bowling attack.

Definitely not biased.

 

[vcs]

And reg. your first point, NO.. coz Lara was carrying them single handedly and he was bound to fail at sometime and it happened in the last test..

He still scored a very quick century in the first innings in the last Test IIRC. So just failed in one innings.

 

[ankitj]

With only 6 more overs to go, was McGrath really out in the Kolkata jail break 2001? I still wonder what would be the fate of indian cricket had he been given the benefit of doubt and the game had ended in a stalemate.

Quite like I wonder if Australia would've ever become the dominant side that it became if SA progressed after the 99 WC SF tie (which they should have but for a silly rule applicable in that WC). I think Australia suddenly became a formidable unit after the 99 WC win without any real overhaul. They were good before that too but the aura of invincibility was not there and I clearly remember that media and TV did not speak of them as one of the greatest sides before 99.

 

[smash84]

Quite like I wonder if Australia would've ever become the dominant side that it became if SA progressed after the 99 WC SF tie (which they should have but for a silly rule applicable in that WC). I think Australia suddenly became a formidable unit after the 99 WC win without any real overhaul. They were good before that too but the aura of invincibility was not there and I clearly remember that media and TV did not speak of them as one of the greatest side before 99.

I agree with this too. After that WC Australia began developing an air of invincibility about them

 

[Ikki]

That's really not saying much. Till around 1999 such were the strength of ODI sides like Pakistan and S.Africa Australia could never dominate like they could afterwards. They were awesome sides in their own right. It is when the likes of Donald, Wasim, Waqar (even the WIndies bowlers) aged/retired that Australia could pull away from the pack. Even until 2003 I don't think Australia were clear favourites.

 

[vcs]

That's really not saying much. Till around 1999 such were the strength of ODI sides like Pakistan and S.Africa Australia could never dominate like they could afterwards. They were awesome sides in their own right. It is when the likes of Donald, Wasim, Waqar (even the WIndies bowlers) aged/retired that Australia could pull away from the pack. Even until 2003 I don't think Australia were clear favourites.

Agree. Australia's Test dominance was also bound to occur IMO, regardless of WC '99. Gilchrist basically turned a great team into an invincible one, IMHO. You cannot understate the value of a player who demolishes and demoralizes opposition like that (see Sehwag).

 

[ankitj]

Agree. Australia's Test dominance was also bound to occur IMO, regardless of WC '99. Gilchrist basically turned a great team into an invincible one, IMHO. You cannot understate the value of a player who demolishes and demoralizes opposition like that (see Sehwag).

Hmm, think that's true. It's never easy to isolate the influence of pivotal events on how things shaped up later.

 

[honestbharani]

Agree. Australia's Test dominance was also bound to occur IMO, regardless of WC '99. Gilchrist basically turned a great team into an invincible one, IMHO. You cannot understate the value of a player who demolishes and demoralizes opposition like that (see Sehwag).

Hmm, think that's true. It's never easy to isolate the influence of pivotal events on how things shaped up later.

AWTA.. I think Australia were just bloody awesome from the time I saw them put out a line up of


Taylor
Slater
Boon
M Waugh
S Waugh
Border
Headly
Warne
McDermott
McGrath
3rd bowler...

 

[smash84]

that is a bloody awesome team..........an ATG team in its own right

 

[ankitj]

AWTA.. I think Australia were just bloody awesome from the time I saw them put out a line up of


Taylor
Slater
Boon
M Waugh
S Waugh
Border
Headly
Warne
McDermott
McGrath
3rd bowler...

that is a bloody awesome team..........an ATG team in its own right

Umm, I don't really think so. Not sure how much overlap was there between Border and McGrath in the first place. Replace Boon and Border with Hayden and Ponting and you probably get somewhere close to pre-99 XI (in fact McDermott also has to be replaced). Given the fact that Hayden, Ponting and to a lesser extent McGrath were not yet ATG cricketers, I don't think this was quite as formidable as what the Australian team became post 99 with arrival of Gilchrist, maturing of Ponting, prospering of Hayden/Langer pair and McGrath's rise - all of which happened almost suddenly around year 99.

I haven't looked up the results but in my mind I remember SA were a tougher opposition till WC 99 happened.

 

[smash84]

McDermott was a pretty decent bowler tbh and he and McG along with Warne is a decent team. Of course I meant to say that assuming all of them were at their peak then it was an ATG team

 

[zaremba]

Dreadful thread this. I gave up after a few pages of the usual crap: brief attempt at serious discussion of an interesting topic; some Indian fanboy brings up the inevitable subject of how great Sachin is; the usual suspects start micro-analysing every available statistic in a way that happens to support their own pre-conceived theories (which in turn happen to big up players from their own countries).

Sorry to sound cantankerous but it would be just great if those concerned could start to recognise the warning signs and begin to moderate their own behaviour accordingly.

 

[vic_orthdox]

8 overs was remaining still. Mcgrath couldn't have survived 8 overs surely even if he was not out .Tbh how India won that series is still beyond me. Kumble did not play in that series. In those days kumble used to win India at home. So it was still amazing India defeated OZ with one man bowling attack.

I remember that before the series, John Wright stated that he would have rather have lost Tendulkar from the side than Kumble. However, I think it's fair to say that if Kumble were playing, Harbhajan would never have done what he did in that series, as Anil would have been given first crack, Bhajj would not have had the confidence of being the number one man, and things could have turned out differently.

Not saying that Aus would have won, but it would have re-jigged how it all went.

 

[smash84]

Dreadful thread this. I gave up after a few pages of the usual crap: brief attempt at serious discussion of an interesting topic; some Indian fanboy brings up the inevitable subject of how great Sachin is; the usual suspects start micro-analysing every available statistic in a way that happens to support their own pre-conceived theories (which in turn happen to big up players from their own countries).

Sorry to sound cantankerous but it would be just great if those concerned could start to recognise the warning signs and begin to moderate their own behaviour accordingly.

haha.........never give up on CW threads...........advice from a newbie

 

[centurymaker]

Dreadful thread this. I gave up after a few pages of the usual crap: brief attempt at serious discussion of an interesting topic; some Indian fanboy brings up the inevitable subject of how great Sachin is; the usual suspects start micro-analysing every available statistic in a way that happens to support their own pre-conceived theories (which in turn happen to big up players from their own countries).

Sorry to sound cantankerous but it would be just great if those concerned could start to recognise the warning signs and begin to moderate their own behaviour accordingly.

IKKI starts off tbh by saying how sachin's record has flaws and then the fanboys just rise to the bait.
I've seen ikki inititate it so many times...

God, nothing's going to change if ikki says lara, waugh > tendulkar

 

[Burgey]

I think this is a bit more representative.

Although his average is still a shade under 30. Quite surprising for me.

Batting records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPN Cricinfo

That was when Chappell made seven or so ducks on the bounce. Fmd I was at the SCG when he went first ball to Croft. Was an absolute cracking nut.

 

[Burgey]

And there is a big question mark whether OZ was really the best side in 1995-99 , given that SA had the best W/L ratio in that period
Team records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPN Cricinfo

And they won a series in India 2-0 without help of rain and injury. So it looks like it was a myth.

SA never beat Australia anywhere in the period 95-99

 

[Burgey]

Umm, I don't really think so. Not sure how much overlap was there between Border and McGrath in the first place. Replace Boon and Border with Hayden and Ponting and you probably get somewhere close to pre-99 XI (in fact McDermott also has to be replaced). Given the fact that Hayden, Ponting and to a lesser extent McGrath were not yet ATG cricketers, I don't think this was quite as formidable as what the Australian team became post 99 with arrival of Gilchrist, maturing of Ponting, prospering of Hayden/Langer pair and McGrath's rise - all of which happened almost suddenly around year 99.

I haven't looked up the results but in my mind I remember SA were a tougher opposition till WC 99 happened.

McGrath was on the way to awesomeness by 98 tbh.

 

[honestbharani]

Umm, I don't really think so. Not sure how much overlap was there between Border and McGrath in the first place. Replace Boon and Border with Hayden and Ponting and you probably get somewhere close to pre-99 XI (in fact McDermott also has to be replaced). Given the fact that Hayden, Ponting and to a lesser extent McGrath were not yet ATG cricketers, I don't think this was quite as formidable as what the Australian team became post 99 with arrival of Gilchrist, maturing of Ponting, prospering of Hayden/Langer pair and McGrath's rise - all of which happened almost suddenly around year 99.

I haven't looked up the results but in my mind I remember SA were a tougher opposition till WC 99 happened.

but who exactly has been sayin that that side was better than the post 99 Aussie side? I am just stating they were the best test side well before Gilly emerged... and you are right, there was not too much overlap between Border and McGrath. so put Blewett and Ponting there instead of Boon and Border.. It is still a bloody awesome team. McDermott replaced by Gillespie...

 

[honestbharani]

McGrath was on the way to awesomeness by 98 tbh.

No way, Burge.. He set the world on fire in the 97 Ashes itself... And was awesome in 95 at home against Windies and away..