ESPNcricinfo World XI

[Teja.]

I am SURE everyone would agree with me here:

The notion that Tendulkar should bat at no 4 in an all time test XI is with enourmous batting talent is ********, secondly putting him down to no 4 puts him in direct competition with Lara in which you have to pick either one of the two, this is also beyond ********.

Tendulkar should open in the Test XI with Lara being included at no 4.

Warne, although my fav bowler of all times since I am an aspiring leg spinner myself should not be included over Murali.

The World XI CORRECTED : Jack Hobbs, Tendulkar, Don Bradman, Lara, Viv Richards, Garry Sobers, Adam Gilchrist, Malcolm Marshall, Murali, Wasim Akram, Dennis Lillee

Wasims place is also debatable, but certainly I think most would not be up in arms about his inclusion.

Haha, No. You pick specialist ATG openers for the opener spot in an AT XI team. It's not a crime not to include Tendulkar, ya'know.

 

[mohammad16]

Haha, No. You pick specialist ATG openers for the opener spot in an AT XI team. It's not a crime not to include Tendulkar, ya'know.

Tendulkar is more than capable of being a specialist opener if need be, he is that damn good, and if that means including Lara of all people into the side, its a no brainer.

 

[GotSpin]

All I can say about Ambrose is that I dream of a cricketer like him. Take all the Tendulkars and Pontings and Kallises away and give me one Ambrose. Raw, aggressive, full of pride and one who "talk to no man". "Unspoiled" by excess professionalism and correctness. I might sound poetic when saying this but seeing Ambrose laugh is like seeing a kid laugh. See this:

YouTube - Ambrose's Slower ball to healy

Such a good ball.

Has the best celebration after getting test wickets too

 

[weldone]

What about opening the bowling with Shane Warne and pick Rahul Dravid as the wicketkeeper?

 

[Jarquis]

No, thats just wrong on so many levels. Firstly, in the last 2 years Sehwag has played the vast majority of his games on the subcontinent, where swing is far less of an issue. Secondly, what has Sehwag averaging 58 and Ponting averaging 42 in that time period got to do with anything? Sehwag is on a peak, Ponting is on a trough... Why don't you compare Ponting in the years he was averaging 60-100 with Sehwag's peak? We are talking about ranking these players overall, not just the last two years. Thirdly, IF (and its a big IF) Sehwag does score many runs in SA wth his current technique, that will only be a step further to suggesting that Sehwag's technique IS actually sound for him and conducive to versatility (i.e. refer to my last post).

That's not what you said originally though.

The question put to you was would you rate Sehwag as an ATG if he plays another 20 Tests in which he averages 70, including fixing his record in South Africa?

To which you answered no, because Ponting is more versatile with a better technique. What on earth leads you to that conclusion if Sehwag fixes the only real hole in his record?

Because according to the above post succeeding in South Africa would show that Sehwag's technique is sound

One feels you're being a little frivolous with your definition of technique. Is it "conducive to versatility" as you've suggested? Or is it something separate, such as being able to play the swinging ball and a lack of foot movement? Which alludes itself to the point I was making about scoring runs despite his technique, rather than because of it.

 

[ankitj]

I agree with vcs that Ambrose is a bit overrated in these parts.

Wait till I prove you wrong decisively with my impending comprehensive stat analysis that I soon intend to do

I put only Marshall (who is even better statistically) and Hadlee (on account of the workload he shared and the results he achieved for a mediocre side) ahead of Ambrose among all great fast bowlers.

 

[weldone]

Sehwag plays the shots he can because of the batting technique he employs (among other things), not 'despite'.

 

[Teja.]

Well I think he's one anyway TBH.

Would you view him in the Ponting league, or a rung below that? I'd be tempted to put him right up there. It's seems so odd though.

Sanga will be in the same rung in 1-2 years IMO. Sehwag, I'm not too sure. Deadset ATG, fo sho tho.

 

[Jarquis]

Sehwag plays the shots he can because of the batting technique he employs (among other things), not 'despite'.

Well supposedly he has a worse technique than Ponting and can't play the swinging ball despite this he's been one of the leading run scorers in Test match cricket for a number of years now.

 

[smash84]

I'm close to infuriated with the XI.

Okay, I'll just ask. Everyone will agree that Imran, Hadlee, Akram and Lillee are of the same quality or negligibly worse/better as bowlers. Hadlee and Imran are much better batsmen. Shouldn't that be an auto-pick?

I'd actually say the same of Miller and Pollock too, but that would be a bit too 'radical' to expect of cricinfo anyway.

Oh, Got 9/11 right. Haha, 9/11.

I don't know about anyone else but I am with you on this.

I agree with vcs that Ambrose is a bit overrated in these parts.

And on this too.

 

[GotSpin]

Funny seeing posts that say Ambrose is overrated with out backing it up for any reason other than *giggles* he played with Marshall

 

[Ruckus]

That's not what you said originally though.

The question put to you was would you rate Sehwag as an ATG if he plays another 20 Tests in which he averages 70, including fixing his record in South Africa?

To which you answered no, because Ponting is more versatile with a better technique. What on earth leads you to that conclusion if Sehwag fixes the only real hole in his record?

Because according to the above post succeeding in South Africa would show that Sehwag's technique is sound

One feels you're being a little frivolous with your definition of technique. Is it "conducive to versatility" as you've suggested? Or is it something separate, such as being able to play the swinging ball and a lack of foot movement? Which alludes itself to the point I was making about scoring runs despite his technique, rather than because of it.

Firstly, I'm not sure what those 20 tests will comprise, but the SA series consists of only 3 test matches. Even if Sehwag suceeds in SA, 3 matches is hardly a definitive sample size. That is why I never said "succeeding in South Africa would show that Sehwag's technique is sound". I said it will only be a step further to suggesting that Sehwag's technique is actually sound". If the majority of those 20 matches are based in swinging conditions etc. and Sehwag still manages to dominate, then I will change my opinion. I would perhaps then consider placing him on a similiar level to Ponting. But, of course, none of this has happened yet.

Succeeding in SA is not the only hole in Sehwag's record. I have rarely seen him perform well in any swinging conditions. He averages 39.5 in England and 20 in NZ (the two swing capitals of the world). Ponting doesn't average much better in Eng (42) but averages 60 in NZ, and most importantly just from observation, I think Ponting handles swing far better than Sehwag.

 

[weldone]

Well supposedly he has a worse technique than Ponting and can't play the swinging ball despite this he's been one of the leading run scorers in Test match cricket for a number of years now.

...because of the batting technique Sehwag employs (completing your sentence).

 

[M0rphin3]

Ambrose overrated?

 

[Teja.]

Funny seeing posts that say Ambrose is overrated with out backing it up for any reason other than *giggles* he played with Marshall

It's just my personal opinion that Ambrose is overrated in the context of comparing him with the likes of McGrath and Donald. IMHO, Ambrose appeared to be a bowler who very rarely showed pro-activeness(while comparing him to those mentioned ofc) and seemed content to wait for the batsman to make a mistake on pitches that did not offer help to him. This belief is somewhat supported by his SR of 54.5 which while good is not exceptional for an ATG bowler. He is still one of the greatest pacers of all-time, just wouldn't make my top 10.

 

[Ruckus]

I just want to make something clear, though.

Hardly anyone would place Sehwag on the same level as Ponting currently, so it is a really pretty stupid and futile exercise to even guess what Sehwag might or might not do in the next few tests. Its like saying, if Michael Clarke averages 100 for the next 3 years will people consider him better than Ponting? Its just a pointless hypothetical...

Even if Sehwag achieves a lot in the next 20 tests, so might Ponting, which makes the predicitions even more worthless.

 

[smash84]

Funny seeing posts that say Ambrose is overrated with out backing it up for any reason other than *giggles* he played with Marshall

I must say that after reading your post I went on to statsguru to look up on Ambrose to prove that my perception about him was correct. And I was surprised to find that in his last three years in tests he played 30 matches and got a 110 wickets at 19.63. Pretty good I should say. Although his wpm seemed to have gone down (less than 3.67 wpm which is not that good). So maybe he wasn't so over-rated after all.

It's just my personal opinion that Ambrose is overrated in the context of comparing him with the likes of McGrath and Donald. IMHO, Ambrose appeared to be a bowler who very rarely showed pro-activeness(while comparing him to those mentioned ofc) and seemed content to wait for the batsman to make a mistake on pitches that did not offer help to him. This belief is somewhat supported by his SR of 54.5 which while good is not exceptional for an ATG bowler. He is still one of the greatest pacers of all-time, just wouldn't make my top 10.

 

[M0rphin3]

It's just my personal opinion that Ambrose is overrated in the context of comparing him with the likes of McGrath and Donald. IMHO, Ambrose appeared to be a bowler who very rarely showed pro-activeness(while comparing him to those mentioned ofc) and seemed content to wait for the batsman to make a mistake on pitches that did not offer help to him. This belief is somewhat supported by his SR of 54.5 which while good is not exceptional for an ATG bowler. He is still one of the greatest pacers of all-time, just wouldn't make my top 10.

Pidge's s/r is 51.9

As for ambrose waiting the batsmen to make a mistake, do check out
YouTube - Curtly Ambrose 7 for 1 against Australia

 

[Jarquis]

I just want to make something clear, though.

Hardly anyone would place Sehwag on the same level as Ponting currently, so it is a really pretty stupid and futile exercise to even guess what Sehwag might or might not do in the next few tests. Its like saying, if Michael Clarke averages 100 for the next 3 years will people consider him better than Ponting? Its just a pointless hypothetical...

Even if Sehwag achieves a lot in the next 20 tests, so might Ponting, which makes the predicitions even more worthless.

Yeah, this issue I had wasn't with any of the above though. It was that you said you'd rate Ponting a rung higher because of technique, which is bull****.

 

[Jarquis]

...because of the batting technique Sehwag employs (completing your sentence).

No, Sehwag has been one of he leading run scorers in Test cricket because he's a ****ing incredible batsman. Not because of "technique".
There are far worse batsmen than Sehwag with far better techniques. A perfect technique only optimises whatever ability you already have.