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The Aamer Situation

If found guilty, Aamer should be banned for:


  • Total voters
    45

andyc

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Cut the crap, guys. Keep it civil or don't post at all.


As for the situation, am still completely in favour of a life ban. Like others have said, there's claims that these players have actually thrown a game as well. Who cares whether it leads to an 18 year old guy being stripped of his source of income and living a life of shame? It's what he deserves for making a terrible decision. If an 18 year old commits a serious crime, the fact that he's going to end up living a life of shame doesn't have anything to do with his punishment, because if you **** up that badly, you deserve a punishment.

I do wonder how much of the defence for Amir is based on the fact that he's clearly a very talented player, though. If the bloke was an 18 year old no-hoper, would we be seeing the same response?
 

Bonnie Prince C

U19 12th Man
With Aamer if it is the case that his arm has really been twisted into bowling these no balls then he should not be given a life ban IMO. The guy is only 18 and is going to be convinced pretty easily when faced with an ultimatum.

Even if he was guilty I am not sure I would be in favour of giving him a life ban. If this was a real life crime he had commited he would likely get a lighter sentence and a second chance due to his age and the same should apply here I would say. People who are 18 tend to be pretty reckless and do things they should not do, that is a way of life. The kid has made a mistake, should his entire career be cut off before it has even started?
 

Burgey

Request Your Custom Title Now!
The issue is that the fixer was using these no-balls just to prove that he really has influence. This wasn't the actual fix.
And this, frankly, is the entire magnitude of the problem summed up in one post.
 

outbreak

First Class Debutant
It's too early to tell what is going to happen yet. If everything claimed turns out to be true i think he should be life banned who cares how old he is. If other information comes out, he assists in enquiries, has some explanations, isn't found to be involved in other things maybe he should get a lower ban. But as it looks at the moment i think he should be life banned and he should have to live in shame.
 

Top_Cat

Request Your Custom Title Now!
As for the situation, am still completely in favour of a life ban. Like others have said, there's claims that these players have actually thrown a game as well. Who cares whether it leads to an 18 year old guy being stripped of his source of income and living a life of shame? It's what he deserves for making a terrible decision. If an 18 year old commits a serious crime, the fact that he's going to end up living a life of shame doesn't have anything to do with his punishment, because if you **** up that badly, you deserve a punishment.
Yeah but you do have to wonder about the worldiness of an 18-year-old from anywhere, let alone one from the sticks like he is. I don't think it's a stretch to suggest he'd have been heavily influenced or even threatened by some or even had the event minimised and billed as easy money. And to one who'd lived most of his life in a village then almost overnight swapped that for the bubble of international sportsman, I'd definitely back the idea that he's probably missing a lot of real-world context for the gravity of his 'crimes'.

As I think Z mentioned earlier, the relative maturity of younger defendants is and should be a valid consideration even for the most heinous of crimes as a mitigating factor. I'd still be saying this even if he was somehow involved in fixing the Sydney Test. A bloke like Aamir isn't going to be the ring-leader of it so I'd find it a fairly obvious injustice if the penalty handed out to him was in any way similar to Asif/Butt.

Myself, educated guess and all that, but I reckon Butt is in the most trouble here. Can't see any of this going on without the captain's input.

I do wonder how much of the defence for Amir is based on the fact that he's clearly a very talented player, though. If the bloke was an 18 year old no-hoper, would we be seeing the same response?
Probably a fair question.
 
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pasag

RTDAS
In an effort to listen to the mod I'll address only the points, but you can't really expect much different when you storm into a debate saying someone's opinions are hot air and he's showing a lust for blood. It's not really going to end up well from there.

I'll be clear about this, the point is does the punishment fit the crime? If the worse aspect of the broader issue is deliberate match-fixing then this falls a long way short of that - a bookie's claims to influence on the field not withstanding (as the evidence of ultimate influence is not something he has claimed in any case). The second is the issue is that it is a young man committing his first offence, a consideration that in all fairness must be weighed. I don't see how assertions to the contrary have any weight.
All these points are acknowledged and ignored because of the severity of offence and how much this type of behaviour rots the core of the game. It's an extreme circumstance and like Scaly said, the game is above all individuals.

The other issue is your laughable claim that the game is in threat if extreme measures are not taken and audience participation will fall due to lack of confidence. Why not just leave it to the actual audiences to decide, over the long term, instead of speaking for other people? The only way this might be true is if a long running match fixing scandal involving numerous players and countries over a period of time came to light. But we are clearly a long way short of that. Cricket has always been something of a grubby game - lets not delude ourselves otherwise.
How much have you been following the saga? Unfortunately I have been on multiple forums (I call it thesis research...) and there is widespread disillusion with the sport right now. But that's not the point. I don't understand the notion that we should wait till the game falls apart before acting. Furthermore the fact that cricket has survived these issues in the past isn't an argument that heavy action shouldn't be taken now for a few reasons.

1. If heavier action would have been taken then we wouldn't have been in this situation now.
2. It barley survived those issues, IMO and it's taken a long time to recover.
3. Today's sporting market is getting as competitive as ever, whilst cricket is clearly struggling to keep its own. Lack of cricketing superstars, boring matches, east west feuding, confusion over formats - there's little goodwill for the sport and this type of thing could push it all over the edge - if suitable action isn't taken. I think some of the claims that Test cricket is dying are overplayed, however not when match fixing is involved. This is the one thing that really, really hurts it.

And why can't I speak for other people? This is a discussion forum where we predict and debate, hypothesise and argue.

Your 'central' point is far from pragmatic despite your assertions to the contrary. What I am arguing against is that, as seems likely, Aamer is not made to pay for two decades (if not more) of sloppy handling of a contentious issue, and for the repeated ills of Pakistani (and sub-continental) cricket. A lifelong ban would strip away a career and source of income as well as lead to a life of shame and stigma. Lol at your claims of being pragmatic. It may be the most effective way of dealing with the problem (although I'd disagree with that too) but it would also be unjust and unfair on Aamer.
Shame, stigma and all of that is unfortunate. There's no malicious intent involved though, I honestly feel for the kid. Calling for strict bans is simply my way of fixing the problem, it has nothing to do with punishment. That's why I said, if you look at it from that perspective, it's purely pragmatic, a way to fix the problem. If it was from a punishment viewpoint, then the debate of punishment fitting the crime comes into play, which is my central argument here.

Furthermore, I'm not advocating Aamer be the only one punished either, as I'd like to see Pakistani cricket banned for a year as well as a complete overhaul of cricket in the entire country, if the stuff about the Sydney Test, Asia Cup match, pak-eng ODIs are true as well as 7 players involved.

Furthermore I don't think I ever said anything about life bans. I'd lean towards it though.
 
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Cevno

Hall of Fame Member
If Aamer has just been involved in the no ball thing ,then he does not deserve too harsh a punishment for me. But if it can be proved that he was indeed involved in fixing a match then Aamer deserves a atleast a 5 year ban .
 

Anil

Hall of Fame Member
this is not a hard stance for life bans but i think we also need to consider the situation that pcb's leniency towards asif for multiple past infractions hasn't had anywhere near the desired deterrent effect...everyone made more or less the same arguments for asif at the time...what happened(or didn't happen) with asif might well have influenced aamir as well...
 

Sir Alex

Banned
Cut the crap, guys. Keep it civil or don't post at all.


As for the situation, am still completely in favour of a life ban. Like others have said, there's claims that these players have actually thrown a game as well. Who cares whether it leads to an 18 year old guy being stripped of his source of income and living a life of shame? It's what he deserves for making a terrible decision. If an 18 year old commits a serious crime, the fact that he's going to end up living a life of shame doesn't have anything to do with his punishment, because if you **** up that badly, you deserve a punishment.

I do wonder how much of the defence for Amir is based on the fact that he's clearly a very talented player, though. If the bloke was an 18 year old no-hoper, would we be seeing the same response?
Good question.

In my case answer is yes, my defence however feeble it be, is purely based on his awesome talent. And I don't think he'd do something like throwing a match by underperforming. No way. He might have cooperated in bowling that noball, but in the overall context of things, I believe is not something with his talent and particularly age, cause for a lengthy ban.

The parallel with Sehwag-Randiv incident is uncanny here. Technically, in fact, when Randiv bowled the delib no ball. sri Lanka had a chance to atleast tie the match remember.

Anyway that's a bit digressing, but yeah in summary, I do think Amir must be punished, but if it's proved that he acted under influence of other senior members, and offer an apology, he should get some leeway.
 

Sir Alex

Banned
Crux, I didn't read that. If he was trying to show his level of influence alone, it's indeed a scary situation.
 

Jezroy

State Captain
I do think Amir must be punished, but if it's proved that he acted under influence of other senior members, and offer an apology, he should get some leeway.
He should be treated like a criminal. These guys all broke the law - in England it is against the law to fix any part of professional sport that is affected by bookmakers. The only way to make match/spot fixing as small a cancer as possible (because human greed makes it imposible to kill completely), is to let people know that this WILL NOT be tolerated. I pretty much never want to see Asif and Aamer play cricket again at the moment. And Butt must have had something to do with it to.
 

Pothas

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
It was Wahab Riaz was it not?

Cards on the table: my viewpoint on this is biased because up until last night Amir was one of my favourite cricketers, I think a life ban would be harsh. There's no doubt that some sort of punishment needs to be meted out, but a life ban for an 18 year old kid for deliberately bowling a couple of no-balls seems harsh. But then again, it's a biasd viewpoint, if it was Kamran Akmal or Mohammad Yousuf who was involved, I'd have no hesitation in calling for a life ban.
Yeah this is pretty much how I feel, the frustration at losing such a wonderfull talent cannot help but make me biased.

Obviously the first thing that needs to be established is what exactly has gone on. If it is 'just' bowling no balls which is of course still very serious for reasons others have pointed out then I think a lengthy ban rather than a life ban would be suitable.

I don’t think his age can be totally discounted either, I may be a soft liberal type but I like to believe in second chances.

Asif is a wonderful bowler as well of course but his history makes it very hard to sympathise.
 

JBH001

International Regular
I do wonder how much of the defence for Amir is based on the fact that he's clearly a very talented player, though. If the bloke was an 18 year old no-hoper, would we be seeing the same response?
I thought about that myself, and I'd like to think that I would. No way of being sure of course, it does colour the issue, though.

As to Pasag's later points, I'll get back to that if I have the time. Been hectic as at work, and I am flat hunting tonight with kick-boxing tomorrow. The speed of posting on CW sometimes makes late replies redundant.
 

aussie

Hall of Fame Member
Hope to god nothing serious comes out of this situation for Aamer & Asif. World cricket needs them playing, would hate for them to get banned.

Damn can only imagine what PAK fan must be feeling.
 

Athlai

Not Terrible
The rest can go to hell really. The only guys who made me once again a follower of Pak cricket are Amir, Haider and to some extent Azhar Ali
Shouldn't be let off specially because you are a gifted player.

IMO Butt should be punished hardest for being the supposed ringleader, Asif probably can't be forgiven for having ****ed up too much in the past. But Amir along with I guess 4 others IMO have their careers on the line.

Match fixing? Yeah get rid of them.
Spot fixing? Ban em for a few years.
 

outbreak

First Class Debutant
If found guilty, the world does NOT need these players. they are cheats and an embarrassment to the game. It does not matter how good these players are. Their match fixing friend also claims he has helped them ball tamper aswell and asif has been in trouble for illegal enhancing substances too. Everything they do in the future would have to be scrutinized VERY highly if they are found guilty and then make a return to cricket.
 

Matt79

Global Moderator
It would be like Paris Hilton getting away multiple times with drug possession simply because she's a rich skank who made a porno that went viral on the net.

Oh...
 

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