"I didn't bowl your little outswingers"

[Matt79]

Doubtful. What Thommo says about speed being measured at the batting end is rubbish. Similar, error with regards infra-red measurements is wildly overblown, despite what pundits say. Just because a bowler says he 'feels' like he bowled a quick ball doesn't mean he did. 170km/h is well and truly out of the bounds of physiological reality.

Why? Given Akhtar has bowled 166kph, and a couple of others in recent times have got very close to that IIRC.

 

[Migara]

It's pretty relevant though that a bloke like Taylor took two blokes whose pace was supposedly so great for 334, whereas as blokes like Richards, Lloyd and others used words like "scary" and "dangerous" and "being in a war" in relation to facing Thomson.

Zahid had a bad back injury which reduced his pace a lot. Taylor played him after his in jury. Lara took the brunt of his pace at Perth. Lara>>Taylor as a test and ODI batsman, and you'll also agree with it.

 

[chaminda_00]

I remember that ODI series with Zahid in Australia, he was easierly the fasted bowler I've seen live or on TV.

Not sure about what speeds Thommo bowled, but I think 180km/h is near impossible. I could believe 170km/h as he was a fair bit faster then Lee and Shoaib, but at those speeds 5kms makes a massive difference. If you watch say Johnson v Lee, Johnson is only 5kms slower, but the difference in speeds is quite noticable. I would say it is the same with Thommo and guys that bowl 150km.

 

[Jono]

Why? Given Akhtar has bowled 166kph, and a couple of others in recent times have got very close to that IIRC.

When on Earth did Akhtar bowl 166kph?

 

[bond21]

Yea I know Thommo bowled faster than 160 km/h regularly, and the speed guns were completely different back then.

Rod Marsh reckoned he bowled 180, Thommo says 180, I know who I am going to trust.... the keeper who kept to him and the bowler himself. Noone else has a clue except those 2

 

[Lillian Thomson]

I wouldn't read too much into the competition. Holding himself was past his 'peak' in terms of true speed as well. I believe his peak to be in the 1976 test series against England.

Holding was still very much a newcomer in 1976 and not yet at top speed, it was certainly impressive the way he demolished England on an absolute featherbed of a wicket at the Oval. In terms of speed he was faster in 1980/81 in those two series against England.

On the subject of Thomson swinging the ball, he certainly did in England in 1975 when he swung it all over the place. Unfortunately it more through accident than design and his control on those occasions was non-existant.

 

[Jono]

Yea I know Thommo bowled faster than 160 km/h regularly, and the speed guns were completely different back then.

Rod Marsh reckoned he bowled 180, Thommo says 180, I know who I am going to trust.... the keeper who kept to him and the bowler himself. Noone else has a clue except those 2

You mean:

"They're Australia, of course you'd believe them." Your bias has become incredibly ridiculous.

Seriously Thommo didn't bowl 180km/h. He just didn't. There's no way he bowled 20 ****in km/h more than Shoaib and Lee's maximum speed.

 

[Lillian Thomson]

Yea I know Thommo bowled faster than 160 km/h regularly, and the speed guns were completely different back then.

Rod Marsh reckoned he bowled 180, Thommo says 180, I know who I am going to trust.... the keeper who kept to him and the bowler himself. Noone else has a clue except those 2

You mean:

"They're Australia, of course you'd believe them." Your bias has become incredibly ridiculous.

Seriously Thommo didn't bowl 180km/h. He just didn't. There's no way he bowled 20 ****in km/h more than Shoaib and Lee's maximum speed.

I'm not sure which is more comical, the notion that Thomson bowled at 180 or that only he and Rod Marsh were capable of making such a judgement.

 

[The Sean]

Anyone know Lillee's pace during the peak of his career?

On Lillee, pre-back injury his pace was apparently pretty damn quick. Sobers commented ont eh world XI tour here in the early 70s that, as soon as he saw Lillee bowling in the early stages "my thoughts turned straight to Perth", and described seeing him for the 1st time as an "awesome sight". I think it was Wisden in 1972 that said he had real, genuine speed of the kind which "made the crowds gasp" or some such over-wrought twaddle which they usually came out with.

Indeed, for those couple of years before he broke down in the Caribbean Lillee was ackowledged to be genuinely express, and I've read accounts of newspaper stories at the time declaring him the "fastest since Hall" or even the "fastest since Larwood." That second assertion should be be taken with a grain of salt IMO, as it would have meant he was also quicker than Tyson, which is a stretch. I could certainly believe the Hall comparisons however.

Obviously after the back injury he was never quite as fast - although for the next few years he was still seriously quick. In the late 1970s, after WSC, he refined his craft and became a masterful exponent of fast-medium, and it's a credit to him that for those first two years after Packer he was at least as good, if not better, than he'd ever been.

 

[Xuhaib]

Did Zahid play in the test where Tubby got 334? IIRC Shoaib did, but unsure about Zahid. If they did, it shows raw pace just doen't do it without class as well.

The game was played on one of the slowest tracks that one could ever get and Taylor did comment that this is the fastest new ball pair he's ever faced, this was Zahid's first game after major back surgery.

 

[Xuhaib]

He did (though he only bowled 16 overs in said Taylor-knock innings). IIRR that would've been after he'd lost some pace due to some injury or other.

Either way, obviously you're quite right that pace is little use without class. Think some people thought Zahid might have had some of that too, though I know little to nothing about him (I only saw him play 1 match, this one, by which time he was not much but a joke).

Zahid did look the real deal before his first injury. He had it all: Pace, bounce, seam, swing, he lost some edge after the first injury but still looked good it was his second injury that finished him totally.

 

[Richard]

Yeah, the old 'hatless' look. A cardinal sin nowadays, but back then it was apprently accepted.

If anyone ever walked out to bat hatless nowadays I'd throw so much abuse at them it'd be untolerable. Seen Dhoni bat hatless temporarily whilst waiting for a change from helmet to hat, and this was when he had his locks flowing.

Was quite a sight.

Seen Russel Arnold do it several times. Other than him, that odd occasion with Dhoni is about the only one I can remember.

 

[silentstriker]

Yea I know Thommo bowled faster than 160 km/h regularly, and the speed guns were completely different back then.

Rod Marsh reckoned he bowled 180, Thommo says 180, I know who I am going to trust.... the keeper who kept to him and the bowler himself. Noone else has a clue except those 2

My keeper and I swear that I bowled at 200 km/h too.

 

[FaaipDeOiad]

Doubtful. What Thommo says about speed being measured at the batting end is rubbish. Similar, error with regards infra-red measurements is wildly overblown, despite what pundits say. Just because a bowler says he 'feels' like he bowled a quick ball doesn't mean he did. 170km/h is well and truly out of the bounds of physiological reality.

Yeah the stuff about the batting end is crap, but the speeds for the fast bowling competition were done over the length of the wicket. That is, the time it took for the ball to travel the 22 yards to the stumps. Speed measurements today are done differently, it's based on the speed the ball is released at, and it's clearly documented in any detailed speed gun replay that the ball drops off in pace a huge amount as it travels, obviously enough.

So yeah, I'd say the measuring system that Thommo, Holding, Lillee, Imran etc went on was considerably less friendly to fast bowlers in terms of clocking high speeds. The fact that Holding and Lillee, both recognised as extremely quick bowlers at the time, both measured in the low 130s should tell you enough.

 

[silentstriker]

Yeah the stuff about the batting end is crap, but the speeds for the fast bowling competition were done over the length of the wicket. That is, the time it took for the ball to travel the 22 yards to the stumps. Speed measurements today are done differently, it's based on the speed the ball is released at, and it's clearly documented in any detailed speed gun replay that the ball drops off in pace a huge amount as it travels, obviously enough.

So yeah, I'd say the measuring system that Thommo, Holding, Lillee, Imran etc went on was considerably less friendly to fast bowlers in terms of clocking high speeds. The fact that Holding and Lillee, both recognised as extremely quick bowlers at the time, both measured in the low 130s should tell you enough.

I keep asking this for someone to prove it, but no one has provided proof. If it was really measured over the length of the wicket, then they'd be bowling full tosses, or at least very full balls. You can see the bowlers bowling at a good length.

 

[JBMAC]

Some Interesting Points

Actually, just spotted this...

Highly unlikely he was as quick as Tyson, IMO.

Tysonn nickname "Typhoon" liked aussie wickets because of their bounce.Thoroughly destroyed the aussies on his first tour here and seemed exceptionally fast "off" the wicket inparticular at the Gabba

If Tyson was quicker, its impossible to say, it would be because of the drag.

You're right there Goughy. But as I said above his pace IMO came "off the pitch"

Absolute load of rubbish that Thommo could bowl 180 km/h. l.m.f.a.o. at all of you who believe this aussie twit. Sure, maybe 165 peak, but 180 km/h?? g.t.f.o.o.h!!!!

I would be surprised at that speed as well but when you are facing or keeping to abowler of that calibre the mind does play tricks and it did seem awful fast.


What else do you expect from an australian. They exaggerate everything and really they are just talking out of a whole in their ass.

I am not exaggerating here.I played both with and against JT and was myself,before taking up the gloves, was also coached and played with Wes Hall

We can do without such generalisations, cheers.

agree

Yea I know Thommo bowled faster than 160 km/h regularly, and the speed guns were completely different back then.

Rod Marsh reckoned he bowled 180, Thommo says 180, I know who I am going to trust.... the keeper who kept to him and the bowler himself. Noone else has a clue except those 2

So how do you know these things?

You mean:

"They're Australia, of course you'd believe them." Your bias has become incredibly ridiculous.

Seriously Thommo didn't bowl 180km/h. He just didn't. There's no way he bowled 20 ****in km/h more than Shoaib and Lee's maximum speed.

I never have faced Shoab but going by what I have seen I would say he is the only bowler I have seen up near Jts pace.Not as consistent though whereas Lee is a touch slower but is more consistent for longer periods of time

I keep asking this for someone to prove it, but no one has provided proof. If it was really measured over the length of the wicket, then they'd be bowling full tosses, or at least very full balls. You can see the bowlers bowling at a good length.

I can't prove it with a speed gun but JTs 'sandshoe crusher was one of the most vicious balls I have ever faced and would swing in the air.When he first came to qld he used to brag that he was fast but did not know where they were going.Having faced him a number of times over the years I can prove he was bloody fast. Wes Hall was about the same speed but had more control and used that quick rising ball to decapitate the batsmen.great method of intimidation.Whether any of these fast bowlers are as fast as we reckon or they reckon,let me asure you all JEFF THOMPSON WAS THE FASTEST I HAVE FACED IN NEARLY FIFTY YEARS OF PLAYING CRICKET.

 

[The Sean]

I played both with and against JT and was myself,before taking up the gloves, was also coached and played with Wes Hall

 

[silentstriker]

I can't prove it with a speed gun but JTs 'sandshoe crusher was one of the most vicious balls I have ever faced and would swing in the air.When he first came to qld he used to brag that he was fast but did not know where they were going.Having faced him a number of times over the years I can prove he was bloody fast. Wes Hall was about the same speed but had more control and used that quick rising ball to decapitate the batsmen.great method of intimidation.Whether any of these fast bowlers are as fast as we reckon or they reckon,let me asure you all JEFF THOMPSON WAS THE FASTEST I HAVE FACED IN NEARLY FIFTY YEARS OF PLAYING CRICKET.

I don't doubt you that he was fast, or that he was the fastest (he might have been). I am simply saying that I doubt they measured the speeds in the way FaaipDeOiad said.

 

[pup11]

Haha, he's a nutbag.

But he was awesome too, he offered something very different to the world of cricket was a complete entertainer and showman (i just simply love his outrageous quotes), but he is easily the fastest and one of the most nastiest fast-bowlers the cricket world had ever seen!

 

[Matteh]

I keep asking this for someone to prove it, but no one has provided proof. If it was really measured over the length of the wicket, then they'd be bowling full tosses, or at least very full balls. You can see the bowlers bowling at a good length.

You see all the West Indian's banging it in short and getting nowhere near Thomson as the banging it in takes quite a bit off the pace of the ball. Thomson's 147 one was pretty much a yorker iirc and he bowled a full toss first up.