Lionel Messi..

[Furball]

I think World Cup performances matter less now given how club football has evolved over the last 20 years.

 

[grecian]

I think World Cup performances matter less now given how club football has evolved over the last 20 years.

nah. would be poor form if we just judged guys in elite teams, particularly as big as madrid and barca are in their respective leagues.. Again, I say we'll wait and see how messi and chav perform at World Cups before declaring them greats, and they've probably both got 2 or 3 to do that.


Club football was better back then, IMHO, because all the best players were not drawn to a few teams.

 

[sledger]

Not sure about this playing at a World Cup criteria thing to be honest, I appreciate it may lay wieght to the claims of a player's greatness, but in the case of Messi I don't think it will really demonstrate a great deal more than we already know about him. Particularly when he's dominating a competition like the Champions League, which I would argue on average boasts better quality opposition than one can expect to find at a World Cup etc...

 

[grecian]

Not sure about this playing at a World Cup criteria thing to be honest, I appreciate it may lay wieght to the claims of a player's greatness, but in the case of Messi I don't think it will really demonstrate a great deal more than we already know about him. Particularly when he's dominating a competition like the Champions League, which I would argue on average boasts better quality opposition than one can expect to find at a World Cup etc...

It will demonstrate he's a better player in a different team, which is surely what we're after here.

Btw people keep on talking about Best and Di Stefano, but I'd argue Dalglish and Weah were better players, and guys that won't be regarded as ATG, because of World Cups. Kenny played in them, but was depressingly brought down by the rest of his deplorable nation.

 

[PhoenixFire]

It's also ridiculous to suggest that Spanish defences are very good.

I'd look to someone who's done it in more than one league (or internationally) first personally.

Ever heard of the Champions League?

 

[Furball]

It will demonstrate he's a better player in a different team, which is surely what we're after here.

Btw people keep on talking about Best and Di Stano, but I'd argue Dalglish and Weah were better players, and guys that won't be regarded as ATG, because of World Cups. Kenny played in them, but was depressingly brought down by the rest of his deplorable nation.

Dalgleish was ****e in a dark blue jersey, should never have played as much as he did.

 

[grecian]

Dalgleish was ****e in a dark blue jersey, should never have played as much as he did.

Well Adam may have been ****, but Kenny Dalglish was a god. Still your top score ain't he? certainly much better then any Rangers plop.

 

[Furball]

Well Adam may have been ****, but Kenny Dalglish was a god. Still your top score ain't he? certainly much better then any Rangers plop.

Joint top. 30 goals in 102 games.

Denis Law did it in 55.

 

[grecian]

Joint top. 30 goals in 102 games.

Denis Law did it in 55.

Yep, and he was an out-and-out goalscorer, whilst Kenny set up more then he scored, thank's for the confirmation of Kenny's genius. Knew I could count on you.

 

[Ikki]

Ever heard of the Champions League?

To be fair, until the latter stages the CL isn't very competitive.

 

[vcs]

To be fair, until the latter stages the CL isn't very competitive.

Messi still has an awesome record even if you count just the knockout stages.. which there is no real reason to do, as it's not his fault Barcelona are much better than the majority of teams they come up against. In fact, he is one of the main reasons for that.

 

[Uppercut]

I'd definitely say the standard of football in the CL is generally comfortably higher than that in World Cups.

CL is less fun though, and it matters less.

 

[vcs]

I'd definitely say the standard of football in the CL is generally comfortably higher than that in World Cups.

CL is less fun though, and it matters less.

Agreed on all counts.

 

[Furball]

To be fair, until the latter stages the CL isn't very competitive.

Neither is the World Cup.

 

[Magrat Garlick]

To be fair, until the latter stages the CL isn't very competitive.

Neither are domestic leagues though.

 

[Ikki]

Messi still has an awesome record even if you count just the knockout stages.. which there is no real reason to do, as it's not his fault Barcelona are much better than the majority of teams they come up against. In fact, he is one of the main reasons for that.

I think he does very well regardless, too. He is an awesome goalscorer. I do agree that the La Liga defences are a joke a lot of the time, and that's putting it nicely. Still, he is putting up incredible numbers. Not just goals, assists too.

I think Messi's numbers do reflect his skill, a bit of weakness in the defences he regularly faces and the strength of his teammates and the way his team plays football.

Neither is the World Cup.

Well, maybe for one match. In each group there is a strong team, a pretty good team, and 1-2 weaker teams. The format is too short for the goal-scoring to be affected by the weaker teams. It's 3 games and then the knock-out stages. A team may only really play 1 very weak team and the others are generally good to very good.

Neither are domestic leagues though.

Agree. But I would say EPL and Serie A defences are still much better than La Liga.

 

[duffer]

If you swapped Messi and Roanldo, do Real become a better team than Barca?

 

[marc71178]

No. Personally I think Messi would struggle at Real and not score anywhere near the goals but Ronaldo would still score a similar number at Barcelona.

 

[vcs]

No. Personally I think Messi would struggle at Real and not score anywhere near the goals but Ronaldo would still score a similar number at Barcelona.

If anything it would be the other way around. Messi's contribution to the build-up play is much more than Ronaldo's. Ronaldo would just not fit into Barca's style of football.

 

[Bun]

Lionel Messi the little master offers timely reminder of the beautiful game as Barcelona thrill - Telegraph

Messi is the ultimate role model for football: as humble as he is nimble. He is a reminder of the importance of a professional dedicating himself to his craft.

All those young pretenders, and there is an annoying clique of overpaid underachievers in parts of the English game, now know that greatness like Messi’s is achieved only through sacrifice, extra hours on the training ground and a commitment to the team ethos.

So true! Hardly have seen him associated with the kind of trash that engulfs other footballers these days. Including the he-who-shouldn't-be-named Top Premiership player. A real role model...

Discipline brings success.