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***Official*** English Domestic Season 2014
- Thread starter superkingdave
- Start date
flibbertyjibber
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Why?
Only ever scored runs in division 2 and failed in division 1. Looks a lot like Vikram Solanki at the crease and he was a great success, NOT, and just because he bowls a doosra and has a funky beard he is flavour of the month.
I have loved him for years, he is great. I am not open to reasonable discussion.
On a serious note though, I very much doubt that any English spinner apart from Kerrigan has bowled better than him in the last year in county cricket. Bothwick does not even bowl.
On a serious note though, I very much doubt that any English spinner apart from Kerrigan has bowled better than him in the last year in county cricket. Bothwick does not even bowl.
flibbertyjibber
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WTF? 
Not to be looked at after a few beers.
Not to be looked at after a few beers.
grecian
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Fair enough, but there's no basis whatsoever on the bowling front for that in County Cricket, particularly over the last year, really not much on the batting front either. It's not just he bowls doosra's it's that he's kept it tight, taken wickets and bowled for long spells on not great pitches for spin.
I can't think of any simalarity with Solanki that Moeen has TBH.
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flibbertyjibber
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All the shots, gets out sloppily. Very similar.
Sean Flynn
School Boy/Girl Cricketer
There is talk that his height counts against him....
theegyptian
International Vice-Captain
Ali is probably the third best english 4 day spinner in county cricket (Admittedly this isn't the achievement that it sounds - there really are some ****s bowlers). Only Kerrigan and Panesar have regularly outbowled Ali over the last couple of years.
I wouldn't select Ali as a bat alone and I wouldn't select him in the team with another spinner but given the allround package he gives in a team lacking batting strength he is definitely an option as the spinner.
You only need to look at the lions games of Sri Lanka for a good comparison of where Ali and Kerrigan are in regards to Borthwick.
Game 1 first innings. Ali 2-16 off 9 overs. Borthwick didn't bowl. Kerrigan did not play. Second innings Ali 2 -59 off 17. Borthwick 0-50 off 10.
Game 2 first innings Ali(left to be with england odi/t20 in WI) dnp. Rayner 0-58 off 17 Kerrigan 1-69 off 17. Borthwick 2-61 off 12. Second innings- Rayner 0-67 off 27 overs. Kerrigan 1-86 off 25 overs. Borthwick 0-83 off 13
Game 3 first innings Kerrigan 4-86 off 37 overs Borthwick 0-24 off 4 overs. 2nd innings
Clearly from the first game Ali was preferred to Borthwick. Ali offered more control and wicket taking options and bowled more overs. He was considered the premier spinner.
From the 2nd and 3rd games Borthwick was again the 2nd and 3rd spinner to Kerrigan. He bowled at most 13 overs in an innings over the series and didn't go at less than 5 rpo in any game.
If it's a direct competition between Ali and Borthwick for the spinners spot Ali wins on both batting and bowling counts imo. Borthwick wins the fielding. If anything Borthwick is close to Ali on the batting than the bowling. The one pro to Borthwick's bowling is that he often runs through the tailend of the opposition picking up cheap wickets which shouldn't be a trait to be overlooked. Unfortunately I really think he would offer no control and I don't think England need a bowler going at 6 rpo who can bowl at most 10 overs a day because he is getting smashed.
Kerrigan hardly needs discussion and he likely will get a chance again but he needs time to develop. So by a process of elimination that leaves Monty or Ali as the spinner. Neither are good options. In fact they are both painfully poor options. Panesar is a nutcase with a bowling action that is getting worse and is as terrible in the field and with the bat as when he started his career. Ali is a stopgap who I very much doubt will be good enough to be the long term spinner but isn't a bad bat who can play some attractive shots potentially from 6 or 7 and add some depth to the batting lineup.
I'd still go Moeen as the spinner but only really because the rest of the options are so poor- and the need for batting depth in what will be a weaker than recent times batting order.
I wouldn't select Ali as a bat alone and I wouldn't select him in the team with another spinner but given the allround package he gives in a team lacking batting strength he is definitely an option as the spinner.
You only need to look at the lions games of Sri Lanka for a good comparison of where Ali and Kerrigan are in regards to Borthwick.
Game 1 first innings. Ali 2-16 off 9 overs. Borthwick didn't bowl. Kerrigan did not play. Second innings Ali 2 -59 off 17. Borthwick 0-50 off 10.
Game 2 first innings Ali(left to be with england odi/t20 in WI) dnp. Rayner 0-58 off 17 Kerrigan 1-69 off 17. Borthwick 2-61 off 12. Second innings- Rayner 0-67 off 27 overs. Kerrigan 1-86 off 25 overs. Borthwick 0-83 off 13
Game 3 first innings Kerrigan 4-86 off 37 overs Borthwick 0-24 off 4 overs. 2nd innings
Clearly from the first game Ali was preferred to Borthwick. Ali offered more control and wicket taking options and bowled more overs. He was considered the premier spinner.
From the 2nd and 3rd games Borthwick was again the 2nd and 3rd spinner to Kerrigan. He bowled at most 13 overs in an innings over the series and didn't go at less than 5 rpo in any game.
If it's a direct competition between Ali and Borthwick for the spinners spot Ali wins on both batting and bowling counts imo. Borthwick wins the fielding. If anything Borthwick is close to Ali on the batting than the bowling. The one pro to Borthwick's bowling is that he often runs through the tailend of the opposition picking up cheap wickets which shouldn't be a trait to be overlooked. Unfortunately I really think he would offer no control and I don't think England need a bowler going at 6 rpo who can bowl at most 10 overs a day because he is getting smashed.
Kerrigan hardly needs discussion and he likely will get a chance again but he needs time to develop. So by a process of elimination that leaves Monty or Ali as the spinner. Neither are good options. In fact they are both painfully poor options. Panesar is a nutcase with a bowling action that is getting worse and is as terrible in the field and with the bat as when he started his career. Ali is a stopgap who I very much doubt will be good enough to be the long term spinner but isn't a bad bat who can play some attractive shots potentially from 6 or 7 and add some depth to the batting lineup.
I'd still go Moeen as the spinner but only really because the rest of the options are so poor- and the need for batting depth in what will be a weaker than recent times batting order.
superkingdave
Hall of Fame Member
If Borthwick were in the side, I'd bowl Joe Root before him tbh. That means he's playing for his batting, and there are much better options.
In other news, apparently Lancashire made an operating profiit of £3.5m last year. Headline good news but without seeing the full figures can't really appraise it properly. A good result this year would be more indicative without the Ashes bloat. Still can't afford an overseas player though...
In other news, apparently Lancashire made an operating profiit of £3.5m last year. Headline good news but without seeing the full figures can't really appraise it properly. A good result this year would be more indicative without the Ashes bloat. Still can't afford an overseas player though...
superkingdave
Hall of Fame Member
But apparently we will be looking for a new coach tomorrow morning.
If it turns out to be Watkinson again, every should put massive money on us for relegation
If it turns out to be Watkinson again, every should put massive money on us for relegation
Pup Clarke
Cricketer Of The Year
I know this was a Bebeto attempt from Cook, but I could imagine him dancing like this. The 'awkward Cook shuffle'
Cabinet96
Global Moderator
Sounds like Moores will be coach. Peter Moores will be named England head coach | The Sun |Sport|Cricket
Kind of makes the whole 'reasons for Pietersen sacking will come soon' thing clear as well.
Kind of makes the whole 'reasons for Pietersen sacking will come soon' thing clear as well.
Scaly piscine
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
As long as it wasn't Giles.