The battle of the ***es....is there a place for women in men's cricket?

[Blain]

We had a fringe NZ woman player train with us everynow and then. We were about 3rd/4th grade mens in the Christchurch comp. She was a fast bowler for NZ.

I faced her a few times, she was about on par with the opening bowlers in that league, maybe a touch quicker. I would have thought she would have been bowling around 120ish/late teens. She would have been cannon fodder for the teams who play to a decent level though.

 

[hendrix]

did she get swing and seam movement?

 

[Blain]

Yeah I think a little (was 4 years ago now), they were grass nets though. I cant remember her doing anything too special in the air.

 

[SJS]

If they are good enough, why not ???

Al the reasons given by Ian O'Brian are about the player/s concerned not being good enough. If they are not good enough, they wont play. What has gender got to do with it.

This is like saying the Cambodians should not be allowed to play in the NBA because they are too short ! Why, even Americans wont make it if they were physically, or otherwise, not good enough. What's being from a group that is known to have a particular physical trait got to do with being eligible or not to play that game got to do with it.

If a woman is such a fantastic keeper that her being a real mug with the bat still makes her a candidate for a keeping slot, why talk of her being a woman and therefore not being able to play fast bowling. How many people think Chandrashekhar could have been killed by a fast bowler and therefore should have been banned from the game or from playing against teams that had real fast bowlers !

To say, as one could i Chandra's case, that those who have a limb affected by polio should not be allowed to play against the able bodied is ridiculous.

 

[watson]

I like to watch women do lots of things. Cricket is not one of them.

 

[Son Of Coco]

In the end, I don't think anyone is good enough to do it ATM, but I really don't see physically why it can't happen in the future. Yet I think the same with Darts, Snooker and golf, and yet somehow it never happens.

The problem with golf is they'll never compete on a course set up for the best men's players. I've played on the exact same layout the women have at Royal Pines for the Australian Ladies Masters about 2 days after the event and shot 2 over in pouring rain with flooded bunkers and while barely hitting a fairway. The course is set up so short. They'd never make it in a men's tournament where it's set up much tougher,

As for cricket, I think the differences in strength make it hard, especially when it comes to bowling speeds.

 

[wellAlbidarned]

When I was 13 the Girls High firsts, who were the national champs at the time, played us and we got smoked. All these 17 year olds did was bowl bouncers.

I'm a rank number 11 and I've only ever called for a helmet twice. That was one of those times.

#wuss

When I was in Colts a bunch of ND reps played in our league. Was pretty funny, some of them were literally twice our size.

 

[Himannv]

(1) is a legitimate point. Second XI sides have a tendency to have random 13- and 14-year-olds thrown in at the deep end, batting 9 and not bowling. Don't forget Yorkshire played a 15-year-old in their first-team two years ago... if he can play, then surely Sarah Taylor can manage it?

It looks a legitimate enquiry, particularly as it's a short-term plan at the start of the season whilst the regular 2nd XI keepers finish their exams. If she's good enough, then great. If she isn't, then it'll be obvious. Taylor must have faced 90mph on the bowling machine (hell, I've faced 83 and I'm crap).

I reckon Sarah Taylor will be a lot more competent at that level than the kid in that picture.

 

[grecian]

The problem with golf is they'll never compete on a course set up for the best men's players. I've played on the exact same layout the women have at Royal Pines for the Australian Ladies Masters about 2 days after the event and shot 2 over in pouring rain with flooded bunkers and while barely hitting a fairway. The course is set up so short. They'd never make it in a men's tournament where it's set up much tougher,

As for cricket, I think the differences in strength make it hard, especially when it comes to bowling speeds.

Well some have made cuts, and have qualified for mens events, so as I say I don't really see any physical reason why not, they're not going to be hitting it like A bubba, Colsaerts, Daly or Quiros, but you don't need to, to be competitive.

I did say that it hasn't happened yet, but I don't see why it can't.

 

[Michaelf7777777]

Yeah agree with the Women should be allowed to play "men's" cricket if they are good enough

 

[Son Of Coco]

Well some have made cuts, and have qualified for mens events, so as I say I don't really see any physical reason why not, they're not going to be hitting it like A bubba, Colsaerts, Daly or Quiros, but you don't need to, to be competitive.

I did say that it hasn't happened yet, but I don't see why it can't.

Making the cut isn't competitive though, it's making the cut.

There's not a woman golfer on the planet who would match it with Woods, McIlroy, or even those ranked at the bottom end of the top 100 on a course set up for men. I also have a sneaky feeling Michelle Wie was a publicity stunt, not an example of someone who legitimately qualified for an event.

I'll be very surprised if we see a woman golfer who can be competitive in a men's event off the same tees before I die for the simple fact that most of them don't hit it far enough. Laura Davies could give it a whack, but in doing so she sacrificed control.

 

[Гурин]

Making the cut isn't competitive though, it's making the cut.

There's not a woman golfer on the planet who would match it with Woods, McIlroy, or even those ranked at the bottom end of the top 100 on a course set up for men. I also have a sneaky feeling Michelle Wie was a publicity stunt, not an example of someone who legitimately qualified for an event.

I'll be very surprised if we see a woman golfer who can be competitive in a men's event off the same tees before I die for the simple fact that most of them don't hit it far enough. Laura Davies could give it a whack, but in doing so she sacrificed control.

Just one thing, in golf you have to rely completely on yourself to move the ball, power is a tool you can't do without.

In cricket, on the other side, you can score runs just by timing the ball, using the speed generated by the bowler. Maybe we'll never see the female equivalent of Afridi or Watson (unless we travel back in time and kidnap a juvenile Serena Williams) but a Laxmanesque approach might work better for women. This is obviously not the case with Sarah Taylor, but, as she will be in the team to improve her game for the Women national team (and that's why it's a nonsense to talk about selection only on merit, one of the job of the counties is to produce and improve players for the national teams), I'm all for this move.

A sidenote, the only drawback until now is an article about her on the most popoular italian newspaper, something about her being an english legend already better than most men ("she has nothing to learn from men") breaking centuries of segregation in a game still stuck in the 1800 blah blah blah. The second time cricket appears in a newspaper in the last year (the first one was about Stuart Broad being a *** symbol) and again it's all complete rubbish.

 

[grecian]

Just one thing, in golf you have to rely completely on yourself to move the ball, power is a tool you can't do without.

In cricket, on the other side, you can score runs just by timing the ball, using the speed generated by the bowler. Maybe we'll never see the female equivalent of Afridi or Watson (unless we travel back in time and kidnap a juvenile Serena Williams) but a Laxmanesque approach might work better for women. This is obviously not the case with Sarah Taylor, but, as she will be in the team to improve her game for the Women national team (and that's why it's a nonsense to talk about selection only on merit, one of the job of the counties is to produce and improve players for the national teams), I'm all for this move.

A sidenote, the only drawback until now is an article about her on the most popoular italian newspaper, something about her being an english legend already better than most men ("she has nothing to learn from men") breaking centuries of segregation in a game still stuck in the 1800 blah blah blah. The second time cricket appears in a newspaper in the last year (the first one was about Stuart Broad being a *** symbol) and again it's all complete rubbish.

Fred Funk, won tournaments hitting it 250 odd, length isn't everything.......

 

[Гурин]

Fred Funk, won tournaments hitting it 250 odd, length isn't everything.......

... isn't everything, expecially at those levels, but I frankly think that his career is exactly the maximum we can expect from the best woman in golf, unless she is godlike around the green and the organizers stop cutting the rough as if it was a grade-2 fairway, something that I really despise in some american tournaments (but probably helps selling a lot more 1500$ titanium drivers)

They might not be everything nor anything in both sports, but I still mantain that in cricket both sheer strenght and power are less important than in golf.

 

[grecian]

... isn't everything, expecially at those levels, but I frankly think that his career is exactly the maximum we can expect from the best woman in golf, unless she is godlike around the green and the organizers stop cutting the rough as if it was a grade-2 fairway, something that I really despise in some american tournaments (but probably helps selling a lot more 1500$ titanium drivers)

They might not be everything nor anything in both sports, but I still mantain that in cricket both sheer strenght and power are less important than in golf.

Hey, I'm not saying they could be number 1, and I'm not saying anyone, like in cricket, is good enough to compete at the highest level ATM, but I think there's no physical reason why not.

Alexis Thompson is 17 and averages 276 on the LPGA.

The Michelle Wie farce put the whole thing back I think.

 

[Гурин]

Hey, I'm not saying they could be number 1, and I'm not saying anyone, like in cricket, is good enough to compete at the highest level ATM, but I think there's no physical reason why not.

Alexis Thompson is 17 and averages 276 on the LPGA.

The Michelle Wie farce put the whole thing back I think.

Agree 100% about Michelle Wie.

There is one other thing though: I have the feeling (people living in a cricketing country to confirm) that the best female golf players have much higher standards of training, even at junior levels, than best female cricket players. I always had the impression that women cricket is not taken seriously (ex. training 5 days a week) in test nations.

Without reaching the extremes of a Polgar education (in a sport where having women compete among themselves is really a nonsense), I think that there could be a massive room for improvement in the womens' game.

 

[wellAlbidarned]

Women's cricket is taken pretty seriously from what I've seen, more seriously than the guy's stuff sometimes. Though my old high school came second in the NZ national champs so that probably skews my view a bit.

Of course they're not going to train 5 days a week because most of them have other commitments. I don't think many junior sports have that kind of training intensity, would be borderline child abuse tbh.

 

[Гурин]

Women's cricket is taken pretty seriously from what I've seen, more seriously than the guy's stuff sometimes. Though my old high school came second in the NZ national champs so that probably skews my view a bit.

Interesting, given that here are virtual to none money in the women's game.

Of course they're not going to train 5 days a week because most of them have other commitments. I don't think many junior sports have that kind of training intensity, would be borderline child abuse tbh.

And this is even more interesting. Here in Italy pretty much every sport at junior level has the majority of teams training at least 3 times a week, with the football pros already doing the full five (6 if you include the game) by the time they are in high school; in fact the repetition of HS years because of football commitment is a problem, expecially in the centre-south of the country.

On the other side, a considerable share of our female football is struggling and only recently slowly coming out of his problem about ***ual preferences of the players (and relative fears involved), which still really hampers its developement. But that's another topic, one quite difficult to talk about, where you're always on a knife-edge.

 

[Burgey]

(1) is a legitimate point. Second XI sides have a tendency to have random 13- and 14-year-olds thrown in at the deep end, batting 9 and not bowling. Don't forget Yorkshire played a 15-year-old in their first-team two years ago... if he can play, then surely Sarah Taylor can manage it?

It looks a legitimate enquiry, particularly as it's a short-term plan at the start of the season whilst the regular 2nd XI keepers finish their exams. If she's good enough, then great. If she isn't, then it'll be obvious. Taylor must have faced 90mph on the bowling machine (hell, I've faced 83 and I'm crap).

Kid's hero is obviously Adam Gilchrist.

 

[Son Of Coco]

... isn't everything, expecially at those levels, but I frankly think that his career is exactly the maximum we can expect from the best woman in golf, unless she is godlike around the green and the organizers stop cutting the rough as if it was a grade-2 fairway, something that I really despise in some american tournaments (but probably helps selling a lot more 1500$ titanium drivers)

They might not be everything nor anything in both sports, but I still mantain that in cricket both sheer strenght and power are less important than in golf.

The set-up of the courses is completely different for men and women too...where power comes into it is hacking it out of wiry 6-inch (or longer) thick rough, or nailing it an extra 30m down the fairway in order to attack a pin that's tucked in behind a bunker with a 7 iron instead of a 5 iron. I've played Royal Pines after it was set-up for the Ladies Masters, and my home course after it was set-up for a qualifying event for a men's pro tournament on the coast, and it was like chalk and cheese. Hit it in the rough at Royal Pines and it wasn't much different to hitting off the fairway most of the time. Hit it in the rough set up for the qualifying event and you had to hack it as far down the fairway as you could manage, which wasn't very far normally. The greens were like lightning.

There are also a wider variety of techniques on the women's tour...suggesting you can get away with a swing that's not quite spot on as you don't get punished as badly when it all goes wrong. Although, in saying that, those who have reached the top 10 are usually pretty sound.

Annika Sorenstam is probably the best women's golfer ever, and she missed the cut at The Colonial. Sure, someone might come along in the future who has the physical attributes to match it with the men. But they're a long way off at the moment. You just won't get the clubhead speed needed to match it with the guys.