***Official*** England in New Zealand series 2013

[Zinzan]

Originally Posted by Flem274*

Srsly though if Vettori comes in and bowls like he did last summer it's time for him to move up the order if he's to play. There's being a containing bowler and then there's being a Franklin with a lower/moderate rpo. .

But that's the whole point of having the luxury of a keeper who can bat in the top 6, we can afford to have Vettori at 7 and still have 4 genuine seamers. I know Vettori isn't much of striker, but his ability to keep things tight is valuable in tests and he still easily the best spinner in the country. I can't remember the last time he went north of 3.5 per over in a test match.

[Mike5181]

Vettori and Ronchi aren't openers, and nor will they be considered options. Let's be realistic here. Flynn was an option there, but he played himself out of the mix by playing even worse than Guptill. Hesson confirmed Watling's not going to be moving up the order, so he's out. That leaves Guptill, Fulton, Rutherford, and Raval as options. With those options, I'm sticking with Guptill. Has anyone actually heard any sort of update on Vettori? Last I heard he was reluctant to make the three-test England series his comeback target. That potentially throws Bruce Martin in the mix after Patel's dire performances over in South Africa.

[Zinzan]

Originally Posted by Mike5181

Vettori and Ronchi aren't openers, and nor will they be considered options. Let's be realistic here. Flynn was an option there, but he played himself out of mix by playing even worse than Guptill. Hesson confirmed Watling's not going to be moving up the order, so he's out. That leaves Guptill, Fulton, Rutherford, and Raval as options. With those options, I'm sticking with Guptill. Has anyone actually heard any sort of update on Vettori? Last I heard he was reluctant to make the three-test England series his comeback target. That potentially throws Bruce Martin in the mix after Patel's dire performances over in South Africa.

I haven't heard anything about Vettori's health since the end of last last month. I do hope he's ready for England.

[wellAlbidarned]

Originally Posted by Mike5181

Let's be realistic here. .

You've lost me there

[Bahnz]

On Adam Milne, it seems fairly likely that he won't play again this season as he's developed shin splints.

[Zinzan]

Originally Posted by Bahnz

On Adam Milne, it seems fairly likely that he won't play again this season as he's developed shin splints.

Disappointing to hear that. I still can't get that brute of a delivery he dismissed Sangakkara with in SL out of my mind.

[Mike5181]

Originally Posted by Bahnz

On Adam Milne, it seems fairly likely that he won't play again this season as he's developed shin splints.

Do you think CD will put up with this much longer? Having Milne, Wheeler, and Small constantly in/out of your squad isn't exactly ideal.

[Kippax]

Originally Posted by Zinzan

Lol @ everyone reactions to Scaly comments about Ronchi being in the Test side. Clearly it's just his latest hobby-horse to insinuate that just because an Australian FC player has moved to NZ, he must be an automatic selection, in spite of the fact he wouldn't have seen him play here. The reality is there is no place in the test side for Ronchi atm, even if our batting depth is paper-thin ( and nobody is disputing that). Unless people are suggesting he's a better option than Watling, I can't see where he would fit in.

Everyone should spend 30 mins watching Rutherford in FC before the call for him tbh. Just such a cast, crude, far from test standard player. Not preferring the output of Watling/Ronchi over Rutherford/Watling will be a surefire taste one day.

BEWARE THE INJURED BATSMAN - Hamish Rutherford double hundred.wmv - YouTube

Hamish Rutherford, 99 vs. India A - YouTube

[Howsie]

Arghhhh, Watling isn't an opening batsmen ffs. He's terrible, always has been and always will be. I mean do you think it was a coincidence that when he filled in for Flynn during the Windies tour that he went back to looking like an absolute muppet, feet going nowhere and bat a mile away from the body. Leave him where he is, he's been one of New Zealand's best cricketers since taking up the gloves, why would you attempt to change him back into a below average opening batsmen again? Especially after we just went through the mess that was Hopkins, Young and Van Wyk.

You want to turn someone into a test match opener, go back to Flynn, at least he has the game for it.

[Kippax]

Flynn's got more of an ingrained ND short-termism to his play tbh, Reminds me of golfers I've known who're on the range 10 hours a day tweaking swing mechanics, because shaving shots off their score with better shot selection and course management is a bit pretentious and beyond their scope.

Don't underestimate just how tentative and boyish Watling's initial effort was. The fact he's actually won some plaudits from a tough crowd and the knowledge there's a stronger team to follow makes him at least a better option than Guptill and Rutherford, which is what I'm after.

[Flem274*]

Originally Posted by Mike5181

Do you think CD will put up with this much longer? Having Milne, Wheeler, and Small constantly in/out of your squad isn't exactly ideal.

That might be why we took in Andrew Lamb tbh. Maybe they see him as someone who provides consistent okayness and will be fit to play more often than not.

Even he is injured now though.

[Zinzan]

Originally Posted by Howsie

Arghhhh, Watling isn't an opening batsmen ffs. He's terrible, always has been and always will be. I mean do you think it was a coincidence that when he filled in for Flynn during the Windies tour that he went back to looking like an absolute muppet, feet going nowhere and bat a mile away from the body. Leave him where he is, he's been one of New Zealand's best cricketers since taking up the gloves, why would you attempt to change him back into a below average opening batsmen again? Especially after we just went through the mess that was Hopkins, Young and Van Wyk.

You want to turn someone into a test match opener, go back to Flynn, at least he has the game for it.

Agreed, let's not mess around with Watling anymore. I suppose I'd be okay with Flynn opening, at least it gives us the left/right combo at the top. A mate of mine close to the Otago set-up always raves about Rutherford, but I must admit to not seeing much of him myself and in the clip Kippax posted, he still looks a tad loose for mine.

[straw man]

Originally Posted by Zinzan

^ Also, if people think Williamson was a bit too loose for 3, batting Jesse there worries me even more so.

Awta v much. iirc we tried this a few times and Ryder kept getting pegged on the back leg in front of the stumps. That was the early calm accumulator Ryder too, not the slogathon Ryder we will probably get if he returns.

[straw man]

Originally Posted by Kippax

Everyone should spend 30 mins watching Rutherford in FC before the call for him tbh. Just such a cast, crude, far from test standard player. Not preferring the output of Watling/Ronchi over Rutherford/Watling will be a surefire taste one day.

BEWARE THE INJURED BATSMAN - Hamish Rutherford double hundred.wmv - YouTube

Hamish Rutherford, 99 vs. India A - YouTube

Don't see that Rutherford looks that bad. Some crude left-handed bludgeoning is probably just what we need at the top of the order anyway. Not much foot movement but defends straight. I guess he plays with fairly hard hands but overall I don't really get what's so ugly about his batting.

Still needs to score more domestic runs obv.

[Zinzan]

Originally Posted by straw man

Don't see that Rutherford looks that bad. Some crude left-handed bludgeoning is probably just what we need at the top of the order anyway. Not much foot movement but defends straight. I guess he plays with fairly hard hands but overall I don't really get what's so ugly about his batting.

Still needs to score more domestic runs obv.

He's not too far off, but from what I saw in those clips he definitely needs to tighten his defense and improve his judgement outside off-stump.

A weeks workshop with Mark Richardson would be a perfect tonic for him imo.