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***Official*** England in New Zealand series 2013

BackFootPunch

International 12th Man
I thought he had major issues when he was actually trying to get batsmen out, he lost his consistency which is his biggest asset. It looked as if he was trying to dictate terms to the English bats (as you should when you're in a position like we were in the final Test) but he's probably a better bowler when he lets the batsman make the mistake or get bored.
 

Mike5181

International Captain
I thought he had major issues when he was actually trying to get batsmen out, he lost his consistency which is his biggest asset. It looked as if he was trying to dictate terms to the English bats (as you should when you're in a position like we were in the final Test) but he's probably a better bowler when he lets the batsman make the mistake or get bored.
I agree with that.
 

straw man

International Coach
He's not a spin bowler. Hasn't been for years. He bowls slow left arm door knobs.
Personally, I think it would probably be a good time for him to quit tests.
If Vettori's batting could be at 80% of its peak and his bowling could be exactly as it was pre injury, he would be a good test option as a 'spinner' in countries where you don't really need a spinner, and we could select 4 fast bowlers, one of whom should be able to bat.

It's Vettori's batting that I have the most doubts about - it remains to be seen whether he could even reach 80% of his peak. We'll see how he's going and what the rest of the test side looks like in 6-9 months. I don't care much whether he plays ODIs or not tbh.

Martin definitely deserves more time, though his three tests here were almost a microcosm of Vettori's career. Start well, batsmen try to attack him and get out, he builds a small reputation, expectations rise, batsmen are more circumspect against him and then he can't get wickets any more. Hopefully he can work with some good people, can work out plans with McCullum and do the job better than Vettori could - then he'll deserve to keep Vettori out of the team.
 

Hurricane

Hall of Fame Member
If Vettori's batting could be at 80% of its peak and his bowling could be exactly as it was pre injury, he would be a good test option as a 'spinner' in countries where you don't really need a spinner, and we could select 4 fast bowlers, one of whom should be able to bat.

It's Vettori's batting that I have the most doubts about - it remains to be seen whether he could even reach 80% of his peak. We'll see how he's going and what the rest of the test side looks like in 6-9 months. I don't care much whether he plays ODIs or not tbh.

Martin definitely deserves more time, though his three tests here were almost a microcosm of Vettori's career. Start well, batsmen try to attack him and get out, he builds a small reputation, expectations rise, batsmen are more circumspect against him and then he can't get wickets any more. Hopefully he can work with some good people, can work out plans with McCullum and do the job better than Vettori could - then he'll deserve to keep Vettori out of the team.
I didn't see him once bowl on TV -just saw him live from side on (Martin) - how much does he turn it compared to other spinners, such as Vettori and Jeets.
 

hendrix

Hall of Fame Member
much more, although Jeets does turn it on helpful pitches too.

He as turning it quite a bit throughout that test.
 

NZTailender

I can't believe I ate the whole thing
I was honestly surprised at the turn he was getting. Drives home that the main reason (imo) he was kept on the sideline so long was because he happened to be SLA like Vettori.
 

Kippax

International Captain
You wonder if Bartin was bowling a lot of very full blockhole filth in Auckland because of the upwind duty at the Basin tbh.
 

BackFootPunch

International 12th Man
It looked to me like when he bowled too full it was because he was just trying to "put it there" as opposed to getting plenty on it and getting drift, dip and turn etc. Then he'd overcompensate and put too much on it and drag it down.

When you're bowling in the situation he was, knowing the batsman won't be coming at you too much, it's so easy to think you just need to land it and you'll get the result - even for a guy with his experience at the FC level.
 

Jezroy

International 12th Man
It looked to me like when he bowled too full it was because he was just trying to "put it there" as opposed to getting plenty on it and getting drift, dip and turn etc. Then he'd overcompensate and put too much on it and drag it down.

When you're bowling in the situation he was, knowing the batsman won't be coming at you too much, it's so easy to think you just need to land it and you'll get the result - even for a guy with his experience at the FC level.
The theory from Coney and the comments team was that it was that it was apparently quite hard to see where the footmarks were from the bowlers end, and he was having issues trying to land it in them.

He was trying to hit the footmarks instead of just as he had bowled through the rest of the series. Nice theory.
 

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