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Thread: ***Official*** England in New Zealand series 2013

  1. #2056
    Cricketer Of The Year Cabinet96's Avatar
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    The thing is, having aggressive players at the top of the order has never really worked for us. I thought CK did OK when he was there, but we've done better since Bell came in. Most of the games where the 3rd trend occurred for Trott were either away from home or when we had an understrength bowling attack. In the Champions Trophy that isn't going to be the case, at least the former certainly, and hopefully the latter. Trott played 9 completed ODI's last summer, against a wide variety of teams, who were all reasonably strong, and we won 8 of them, mostly because our bowling attack did well.

    If KP comes in for Root at 4 for the Champions Trophy we'll have slightly more power, while being in the conditions where a powerful top order is needed least. I think our current side, with KP in for Root, will be fine for the Champions Trophy, and that's all that we really need to be working towards at the moment IMO.

  2. #2057
    International Vice-Captain BeeGee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by theegyptian View Post
    Hales is the obvious option as an opener.
    AWTA. In the modern ODI game you need some firepower at the top.

  3. #2058
    Cricketer Of The Year Cabinet96's Avatar
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    I'd argue that the game is regressing though. Two new balls, less fielders aloud outside of the circle allowed, meaning powerplays have less impact, only 10 overs of powerplay up top now.

    Don't get me wrong, I quite like the idea of Hales opening in ODI's, but I just don't think there's space for him at the moment, and I don't think a batter with such firepower is "needed" to be successful at the moment, particularly in England.

  4. #2059
    International Vice-Captain BeeGee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neil Young View Post
    As someone said, technically he is pretty proficient but mentally he struggles to adapt to certain game situations.
    This. He's an underachiever because his mental game can't make the most of his natural talent.


  5. #2060
    International Regular Kippax's Avatar
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    Southee and Rutherford called up.

    Southee Returns, Woodcock Writhes in Pain - YouTube
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    Another exaggerated personality stereotype conspiracy brought to you by Kippax.
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  6. #2061
    International Captain hendrix's Avatar
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    No, save Southee for the tests so they don't get a good look at him please

  7. #2062
    School Boy/Girl Captain Binkley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hendrix View Post
    No, save Southee for the tests so they don't get a good look at him please
    Playing another first-class match would be much better preparation for the tests as well.

    And didn't management in South Africa say they were going to keep the test match bowlers out of the T20s and ODIs because it ruins their test match lengths? Or does that rule only apply to Doug Bracewell?

  8. #2063
    International Captain straw man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hendrix View Post
    Moreover, it doesn't help that he's seen as a massive under-achiever, as he's failed to live up to his early career heroics against Australia. Compounding the frustration is the manner of his failures, which are typical of aggressive batsmen across the world, but that doesn't make them any less good fodder for a baying public.
    McCullum's one of the best in the world in T20Is, so he's not underachieving there. In ODIs hopefully we'll see the best of him now he's batting at 6. His opening in ODIs ultimately unsuccessful because he ended up playing the accumulator role as our middle and lower middle order was too weak to risk really hitting out in the first 10-15 overs. We also don't seem to be seeing as many 300+ pitches in ODIs around the world as we did 5 years ago, plus now have the new-ball-at-both-ends thing, so that makes early aggression more difficult.

    Has McCullum underachieved in tests? He certainly has always had top-level ball-hitting ability - I remember years ago when we were repeatedly getting knocked over by Brett Lee and anyone else that bowled fast, and I realised that only Fleming and McCullum in our top-7 had the physical reaction speed to have any sort of chance against bowling that speed. I still don't think he has a particularly solid defensive technique though, but I find it hard to pinpoint what I don't like about it. One thing compared to top level batsman is that his head is not as still when he defends. He often plays the ball in quite an exaggerated manner but he's not Ricky Ponting or Brian Lara so can't get away with that. I believe he's also been described on this forum as 'still a lazy hack outside offstump' which is probably not unfair. So I think part of that favoured aggressive batting approach is not because he's stupid but because he knows sooner or later the defense is going to fall over against any sort of quality bowling, and he's a better chance to attack and try to put the bowler under pressure. This hasn't really worked though. It's tough being a test batsman and especially being a test opener. Many pare back their games to an absolute bare-basics level that just works; McCullum obviously doesn't want to do that and it may not work even if he did.

    This is not to say his mental approach has been close optimal either - the charge and spoon a catch to point against Ohja in the first test vs India with barely a sighter before it was a perfect example of that. Though thinking back further I didn't mind it when he slashed a catch in one of the tests against Australia when on 30, as it was a difficult pitch, the bowlers were inexperienced and that aggressive approach had legs in my opinion. McCullum's always had a problem choosing the right situation to attack.

    Looks like he'll now have the cushy middle order role but I'm still expecting him to average just high 30s against top-8 sides. That said I'm expecting a decent home series against England on our pitches - couple of fifties, maybe even a hundred.

  9. #2064
    International Vice-Captain Mike5181's Avatar
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    He should be averaging 33 in ODIs, and 37 in tests imo. There's no problem with T20Is, he's world class there.

  10. #2065
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    This in today's Herald re Southee

    "We don't want him to play against England before the first test. He's tracking well and we don't want to give them a look at him," Littlejohn.

  11. #2066
    International Captain straw man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blakey View Post
    This in today's Herald re Southee

    "We don't want him to play against England before the first test. He's tracking well and we don't want to give them a look at him," Littlejohn.
    I think this is a good approach

  12. #2067
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    Quote Originally Posted by straw man View Post
    I think this is a good approach
    Yet they've included him in the ODI squad.

  13. #2068
    International Vice-Captain Days of Grace's Avatar
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    So, why has Southee been added to the ODI squad if we "don't want England to have a look at him?"

    Boult and Rutherford in as straight swaps for Mitch and Guppy. We won't lose that much, although Rutherford is an unknown quantity and Boult is dodgy with leaking runs in L/O.

    Well done, McCullum last night. I think he should forever stick to no.5/no.6 in tests and ODIs from now on. ODIs have changed in the last year and a bit, as Straw Man posted. Two new balls and there the days of scoring 90 off the first 15 overs with players like Jayasuriya and Kalu seem to have gone. Instead, we seem to have come full circle with scores of 60/1 off 15 overs now being seen as a very solid start.

    However, I think it is very dangerous to place too much emphasis on the powerplay. There is now only one less fielder in the deep so it doesn't really give the batsmen as many opportunities as before.

    Therefore, I was pleased with the way McCullum played during the powerplay last night. He put the bad balls away (England bowled way too many short balls at him) but didn't try to hit every ball out of the park, which has been the undoing of many teams when the powerplay is on.

    Hope we can win again on Wednesday. Need some consistency.
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  14. #2069
    International Vice-Captain Mike5181's Avatar
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    What's the point of calling him into the squad if he's not going to play? Just play him imo. He'll have the warm up game before the test series to adjust to the longer format, just like all the other bowlers. If we win this ODI series we'll probably move up to 7th in the rankings.

  15. #2070
    U19 12th Man Blain's Avatar
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    I would have prefered Butler to come in, let Southee play another FC match to get his fitness right.

    But now that he is in the squad, it would be silly not to play him, really.



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