**Official** New Zealand in South Africa

[HeathDavisSpeed]

Which all makes me wonder... Who was better - James Franklin or Ronnie Irani?

The Comparison

• Both started out more as bowlers but injuries took their toll until they became more equipped at first class level to bat.

• Injury prone

• 'Characters' - who can forget Ronnie Irani's calisthenics routine? Or Jimmy Franklin's diverse range of facial expressions?

• Both a little bit **** at ODIs

• Both continued to be selected for international honours for no apparent reason.

• Both have first class double tons (218 Irani, 219 Franklin)

 

[NZTailender]

I do. For a country who struggle to keep fast bowlers on the park for a whole series, let alone a summer, Tommy's ability to stay fit and lead the attack deserves plenty of plaudits.

If you mean ability to stay fit and bowl better than the scores of other mediocre right arm medium-quicks in the country, then he definitely does need to be applauded. But then there are sometimes when the only reason he's playing is because he's fit, not because he's a great option. But then, that's not entirely his fault and I do respect him as a player for having being able to do that.

 

[Mike5181]

People weren't saying much about him at all, which is part of the point. His Test bowling, at any rate.

He was a pretty threatening bowler, which was reflected by his strike rate and economy.

He took five wickets for the match against both Bangladesh and Zimbabwe tbf.

 

[hendrix]

Franklin also played lots of ODIs back then and his bowling was genuinely rubbish in those, which contributed to people underrating his test bowling.

This is probably what did it for me.

I always thought of him as someone who could take wickets, just that he was ridiculously expensive at the same time.

 

[NZTailender]

He took five wickets for the match against both Bangladesh and Zimbabwe tbf.

Both powerhouses in those days

 

[Mike5181]

Come on guys get realistic we need a genuine batsmen at number 7. As if the 5th bowler is going to add much more than the occasional wicket, and if we need to manage our bowlers, Vettori is there to bowl long tight spells and the part timers can chip a few in as well
Ideal situation:
7. Watling
8 Vettori
9. Bracewell/Wagner/whoever
10. Southee
11. Boult

If I had to name our strongest possible team for the England series, It would probably be something like this:

1. Daniel Flynn
2. Brendon McCullum (c)
3. Kane Williamson
4. Ross Taylor
5. Jesse Ryder
6. Dean Brownlie
7. BJ Watling+
8. Daniel Vettori
9. Doug Bracewell
10. Tim Southee
11. Trent Boult

12. Martin Guptill
13. Jeetan Patel
14. Adam Milne
15. Neil Wagner

That's how I see it anyway. If you'd prefer Vettori didn't play shift Bracewell/Wagner to eight and play Patel. There's batting ability all the way down the order with Southee/Boult capable of contributing 15-20 runs as well.

 

[hendrix]

If I had to name our strongest possible team for the England series, It would probably be something like this:

1. Daniel Flynn
2. Brendon McCullum (c)
3. Kane Williamson
4. Ross Taylor
5. Jesse Ryder
6. Dean Brownlie
7. BJ Watling+
8. Daniel Vettori
9. Doug Bracewell
10. Tim Southee
11. Trent Boult

I'd be pretty happy with this team, but I believe Vettori won't recover in time.

 

[ohnoitsyou]

If I had to name our strongest possible team for the England series, It would probably be something like this:

1. Daniel Flynn
2. Brendon McCullum (c)
3. Kane Williamson
4. Ross Taylor
5. Jesse Ryder
6. Dean Brownlie
7. BJ Watling+
8. Daniel Vettori
9. Doug Bracewell
10. Tim Southee
11. Trent Boult

12. Martin Guptill
13. Jeetan Patel
14. Adam Milne
15. Neil Wagner

That's how I see it anyway. If you'd prefer Vettori didn't play shift Bracewell/Wagner to eight and play Patel. There's batting ability all the way down the order with Southee/Boult capable of contributing 15-20 runs as well.

The starting line up looks great, but theres no point including Milne against a team that consistently has 150 kmh balls bowled at them in the nets, and it would be good to get Chops in the squad as well, nvm his weakness

 

[straw man]

Which all makes me wonder... Who was better - James Franklin or Ronnie Irani?

The Comparison

• Both started out more as bowlers but injuries took their toll until they became more equipped at first class level to bat.

• Injury prone

• 'Characters' - who can forget Ronnie Irani's calisthenics routine? Or Jimmy Franklin's diverse range of facial expressions?

• Both a little bit **** at ODIs

• Both continued to be selected for international honours for no apparent reason.

• Both have first class double tons (218 Irani, 219 Franklin)

Think you're probably more familiar with Ronnie Irani than the rest of us, which it looks like we can all be grateful for

I see Irani is now a radio host and that may give him the edge over Franklin.

 

[_Ed_]

I'd be pretty happy with this team, but I believe Vettori won't recover in time.

Yeah, probably agree. And, like it or not, I wouldn't be surprised if Ronchi forced his way into contention by then.

 

[Mike5181]

The starting line up looks great, but theres no point including Milne against a team that has 150 kmph bowling at them in the nets, and it would be good to get Chops in the squad as well, nvm his weakness

I picked Milne because he has a good record in the longer format, and dominated the Plunket Shield this season.

 

[Mike5181]

Yeah, probably agree. And, like it or not, I wouldn't be surprised if Ronchi forced his way into contention by then.

I thought about including Ronchi, but we generally haven't included a reserve keeper in our test squads. I can't see him replacing Watling just yet, unless he has an absolutely terrible second test.

 

[Kippax]

People should refrain from putting Ryder at 5 in their teams tbh. Overseas readers will think it's just a matter of time.

 

[ohnoitsyou]

I picked Milne because he has a good record in the longer format, and dominated the Plunket Shield this season.

NZ domestic batsmen

 

[Zinzan]

Come on guys get realistic we need a genuine batsmen at number 7. As if the 5th bowler is going to add much more than the occasional wicket, and if we need to manage our bowlers, Vettori is there to bowl long tight spells and the part timers can chip a few in as well
Ideal situation:
7. Watling
8 Vettori
9. Bracewell/Wagner/whoever
10. Southee
11. Boult

Why has Mark Gillespie suddenly fallen off the radar with everyone? In his last two tests (which were against SA) he took 11 wickets @ 22 and was by far and away our most likely wicket taking option. Short memories.

 

[_Ed_]

Fair point. But he is injury-prone and has only been OK for Wellington in Plunket Shield - 17 wickets @ 35.

 

[Mike5181]

NZ domestic batsmen

NZ domestic batsmen? It's not like scoring runs against NZ first-class bowlers is a good indication of whether they would score runs in internationals either. We just have to live with what we have to judge players on. Cachopa scoring a few centuries against our domestic attacks isn't going to scare Steyn, Philander, and Morkel either. The batsmen we have at the moment have done the same thing, and they were recently bowled out for 45. It's not like we can pick bowlers that have had success at test level for that reserve spot, unless you want to pick a 38 year old. Love it or hate it, Milne's definitely among the top bowlers in the country that have yet to be picked for the test squad. Matt Henry, and Ben Wheeler would be the others.

 

[Mike5181]

Why has Mark Gillespie suddenly fallen off the radar with everyone? In his last two tests (which were against SA) he took 11 wickets @ 22 and was by far and away our most likely wicket taking option. Short memories.

When he's fit and in form, he's definitely one of our best. He's always injured though.

 

[Bahnz]

I picked Milne because he has a good record in the longer format, and dominated the Plunket Shield this season.

Erm, dominated the Plunket Shield? He's only played in 2 games so far this season, and while he bowled well (in parts), I'd hardly call that dominating the comp.

 

[Howsie]

Cricket, Black Caps: Batsmen Cop Friendly Fire In... | Stuff.co.nz

Hesson earlier hinted Guptill may go down the order and he may need a respite, leaving Flynn to potentially get a promotion.

Are there many PS games before the England test series starts?