Best of The Second Tier

[kyear2]

They are just out side of the list of truely elite batsmen, the Bradmans, Sobers, Hammonds ect, but from a list comprising Everton Weekes, Denis Compton, Graeme Pollock, Javed Miandad and Neil Harvey was the best of the rest.

 

[kyear2]

I didn't include Clyde Walcott, because I only wanted to have one player from each nation, even though I rate him to be at least the equal of Sir Everton, the same goes for Border. I also didn't include any of the currenttly playing greats such as Ponting, Kallis, Dravid or Sangakkara, because as Sehwag is currently showing, their legacy is far from complete. Ponting though I belive will be in the upper echleon by the time his career is finished, for Sangakkara its still too early to tell for certain, Dravid might be in that gray area because of arguments on both sides, because some see him as a match winner, while others say he was too defensive. Kallis mabe in the end seen more of an elite All-Rounder rather than be seen as just a batsman, so he would still be in that upper class.
So from Compton, Pollock, Weekes, Miandad and Harvey, who was the best and in what order do they fall historically.

 

[BoyBrumby]

Arguably every batsman aside from Bradman was second tier, so far ahead of the curve was he.

But if we allow that there were other all-time greats I'm probably include Pollock amongst them. Second highest ever test average for players with over 2000 runs, after all.

I guess the first task to define our terms; who would be excluded as "first tier"?

Bradman, Sachin, Hobbs, Richards, Hammond, Hutton (?), Lara....?

 

[kyear2]

Well for me the top tier would comprise Bradman, Richards, Tendulkar, Headley, Sobers, Lara, Chappell and Hammond among Middle order players and for openers Sutcliffe, Hobbs, Hutton and Gavaskar.
As I said above Ponting, Border and Dravid and probably Barry Richards (just 4 tests) are probably just a notch below or in that grey area, with Ponting still having time to pull himself up into that league.

 

[fredfertang]

WG needs to be with the elite, and Ranji in the second tier

 

[Arachnodouche]

Why doesn't Barry Richards get much mention on this forum? Surely couldn't have been many more talented batsmen than him in the annals of the game.

 

[TNT]

WG needs to be with the elite, and Ranji in the second tier

Did you see either of these players when they played?.

 

[fredfertang]

Did you see either of these players when they played?.

What would you think if I said yes?

 

[TNT]

What would you think if I said yes?

Old videos, news reels then maybe.

 

[fredfertang]

There is a bit of footage of WG in the nets when he was well over 50 - I suspect it will be on youtube somewhere - only a couple of deliveries

 

[kyear2]

Why doesn't Barry Richards get much mention on this forum? Surely couldn't have been many more talented batsmen than him in the annals of the game.

I did initially have Barry Richards with the first tier and by the time i finish this article he may end up there again, he is the one player that I struggle with the most, because talent wise he does deserve to be there, also why I would include Richards and not Pollock as much is that Richards also got to prove himself playing first class cricket all over the world and especially in WSC. He was seen along with his name sake as the best batsmen of the era, just ahead of Greg Chappell.

 

[kyear2]

WG needs to be with the elite, and Ranji in the second tier

I tend to stick to players of the 20th century, and one reason that Syd Barnes is not in mine and most peoples all time 1st 11, is that no one has seen him even on footage and no one is even sure what he bowled. the same goes for Grace and Ranji, aditionally the level of competition those days was quite below standard and Grace's reputation and dealing with umpires doesnt help with his long term credibity. Also most of his career was pre Test Cricket, and so while he is regarded as pne of the three towers of the game and created modern batsmanship, I dont think it translates to this exercise.

 

[ankitj]

This thread could have gone only one way - a discussion on who comprise the second tier. I for one find it outrageous that G Pollock is in second tier, when G Headley curiously isn't!

 

[Howe_zat]

What would you think if I said yes?

Cryonic freezing?

 

[kyear2]

This thread could have gone only one way - a discussion on who comprise the second tier. I for one find it outrageous that G Pollock is in second tier, when G Headley curiously isn't!

Then ignore the tiers, dont know how many historians rated Pollock higher than Headley, but sure you wouldn't find many. As one of the sourses I constantly cite, when Cricinfo made their all time selections, Headley missed the first team by one point, and Pollock was behind in order Bradman, Sobers, Tendulkar, Richards, Headley, Lara, Hammond and Chappell, and that was just the middle order batsmen. Headley carried his team on his back when the West Indies were new to test cricket and toured and dominated as few has before or after. Pollock played on much stronger teams, not saying Pollock wasn't great, I have him in the top 10 of all time of middle order batsmen, not a slight. Don't think being compared to Everton Weekes, Javed Miandad or Denis Compton is an awful thing.

All was trying to do was to see who people thought was better from the group selected, was reading the top 100 from C.M.Jenkins and he had Compton at #21, ahead of all of the aforementioned players. Just wanted to acertain who everyone thought was better and in what order, obviously your choice is Pollock, care to mention how you think the others rank after him?

 

[Flametree]

So how many tiers are there? Are they equal size?

Trying not to decide that beforehand, I get two top tiers of about 15 each...

Tier 1 (in order of nationality before anyone gets upset) :

Bradman, Chappell, Hobbs, Sutcliffe, Hutton, Hammond, Tendulkar, Gavaskar, Pollock, Richards B, Kallis, Sobers, Headley, Richards V, Lara, Weekes, Walcott

Next :

Harvey, Border, Waugh S, Ponting, Ponsford, McCabe, Barrington, Compton, Merchant, Dravid, Javed M, Nourse, Sangakkara, Worrell, Greenidge

 

[Spikey]

sid barnes obvz

 

[weldone]

So, do everyone in CW agree on the first tier while we are moving onto the second tier?

 

[Burgey]

I'd say India and West Indies are the best of the second tier sides atm.

 

[kingkallis]

I'd say India and West Indies are the best of the second tier sides atm.

I was seriously expecting this!