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Mark Waugh vs Damien Martyn

Who was the better player?


  • Total voters
    63

Briony

International Debutant
I think Mark Waugh prevented a lot of better players from playing in his place (Darren Lehmann for one and even Damien Martyn for another). Not that he wasnt a good player, but quite honestly he was fortunate to have played 128 test matches for Australia while just being 'good enough' given the kind of talent that was available in the sheffield shield at the time.
Absolutely spot on, the most overrated batsman for Australia during my time of watching. His average was only average in an era of relatively high averages and there were some worthy replacements. His credit was extended by the selectors beyond his usefulness. Was generally found wanting under pressure.
 

Briony

International Debutant
Actually confirmed my assertion, especially with the few of the nominated being ODIs. You'd struggle to complete a handful of truly pressure innings compared with some of the much less hyped batsmen around. I distinctly recall, however, on numerous occasions when the pressure was on that he would waft away from his body and go out relatively cheaply. And let's not forget that the Indian one you cite was his highest ever test score. Most very good or great batsmen have many scores over 150. And please don't (vomit) start spouting nonsense that he used to get bored so he went out quicker than most. The bottom line is that his average was basically under 45 for his whole career. He found his level.
 

archie mac

International Coach
Thanks mate, great stuff:cool:

I think Mark Waugh prevented a lot of better players from playing in his place (Darren Lehmann for one and even Damien Martyn for another). Not that he wasnt a good player, but quite honestly he was fortunate to have played 128 test matches for Australia while just being 'good enough' given the kind of talent that was available in the sheffield shield at the time.
Crap, if they were good enough they would have played in front of him. This is the Aussie team unless your a captain if you don't perform you are out

Absolutely spot on, the most overrated batsman for Australia during my time of watching. His average was only average in an era of relatively high averages and there were some worthy replacements. His credit was extended by the selectors beyond his usefulness. Was generally found wanting under pressure.
Every time people called for his head he would respond with a big score. Struggling for a word to describe that:wacko: Pressure:happy:
 

Mike5181

International Captain
It's a shame someone like Michael Bevan played so few test matches. If you think about it his last test match was in 1998 and he is only 40 now.
 

Top_Cat

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In my book, the two really unlucky guys in Aussie cricket when Mark Waugh was being nailed LBW yet again were Lehmann and Law. The others were generally in and out of form at the wrong times to displace him, really.
 

fredfertang

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
With Stuart Law wasn't it the case that he saved his best form for the English season, so away from the selector's view?
 

Ikki

Hall of Fame Member
It's a shame someone like Michael Bevan played so few test matches. If you think about it his last test match was in 1998 and he is only 40 now.
When I look at his ODI exploits then his Test, I let out a big sigh. :down:
 

Top_Cat

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Think that was more the case with Cox and Hussey. Law would surely have averaged near 50 over his time with QLD.

EDIT: 42. 22 tons in 13 seasons of FC cricket though. Was captain for a large chunk of that and QLD won an awful lot of Shield cricket (and Shields) under him so he definitely wasn't under the radar. Definitely thought his numbers were better than that because he was a first-choice player in ODI's for a long time.

And regarding Bevan, he was given ample opportunity to play Test cricket, he just wasn't good enough. Nicked out an awful lot for a top-6 Test batter, was a bigger factor than the fact he was tumbled by a couple of short ones (he could play them okay, really).
 
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Blaze 18

Banned
It's a shame someone like Michael Bevan played so few test matches. If you think about it his last test match was in 1998 and he is only 40 now.
True, he was unlucky not to get a few more games. Having said that, he did have problems against the short ball, and Australia had an embarrassment of batting riches (and bowling too, actually) around that time, didn't they?
 

Ikki

Hall of Fame Member
And regarding Bevan, he was given ample opportunity to play Test cricket, he just wasn't good enough. Nicked out an awful lot for a top-6 Test batter, was a bigger factor than the fact he was tumbled by a couple of short ones (he could play them okay, really).
Always thought his problems were mental and that it would eventually click into place for him. I think he would have been alongside Ponting chasing all these records. Big call but I rate him that much.
 

Top_Cat

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Always thought his problems were mental and that it would eventually click into place for him. I think he would have been alongside Ponting chasing all these records. Big call but I rate him that much.
Weren't the only one, to be fair. Heaps of good judges thought he'd be one of the best ever.

That said, just about all of them also said Allan Mullally would play Test cricket for Australia so.....
 

Mike5181

International Captain
True, he was unlucky not to get a few more games. Having said that, he did have problems against the short ball, and Australia had an embarrassment of batting riches (and bowling too, actually) around that time, didn't they?
Yeah, Michael Bevan took 29 wickets at 24 is tests! When you look at all the players around at that time in Australia its pretty ridiculous. The players that were left on the sideline like Martin Love, Michael Hussey and Brad Hodge. Who would of walked into most other sides.

I remember them having other bowlers that did pretty well in the late 90s early 2000s other than the ATG big names like Colin Miller, Damien Fleming and Kasprowicz. Andy Bichel and Stuart Clark were around as well. Not to mention the spinners Macgill and Hogg. Although admittedly hes not a great test bowler. Trying to think of more batsmen.
 

tooextracool

International Coach
Crap, if they were good enough they would have played in front of him. This is the Aussie team unless your a captain if you don't perform you are out
If you 'don't perform' being a key sentence. I don't deny that Mark Waugh didnt perform. He was a decent player with a perfectly good record. He always did enough to keep his place. However, if you ask me there were many candidates waiting in the wings who never got an opportunity to play for Australia in their prime. Darren Lehmann could well have been one of the greatest Australian batters ever, and I mean every word of that. Its a shame that he got his first consistent run for Australia after his 32nd birthday.

It would have been a bold and risky move to drop a proven test match player like M. Waugh for someone who could potentially be way better. However, such a move is not exactly atypical of the Australian selectors. Martyn himself was dropped for Hussey after 5 poor Ashes tests in 2005, despite the fact that he had been the pick of the batsmen for the previous year and a half.
 

Spark

Global Moderator
That was unique though. There was a desperate hunt for blood after the Ashes loss because it was an Ashes loss. Martyn was one of the unluckier ones.
 

tooextracool

International Coach
Mate, pretty much every series that Australia lost in the 90s (not many, i know) could be traced back to a Mark Waugh failure. And that includes all of the 'final frontiers'. If they wanted blood, they could quite easily have gone for it.
 

Top_Cat

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Definitely thought he was in trouble after the SL series they lost, tbh. Was the perfect opportunity to give Lehmann a go considering he was in the form of his life.
 
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