View Poll Results: Greatest All-Rounder including captaincy

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  • WW Armstrong

    2 4.55%
  • R. Benaud

    2 4.55%
  • A. Border

    0 0%
  • T. Goddard

    0 0%
  • WG Grace

    0 0%
  • T. Greig

    0 0%
  • W. Hammond

    0 0%
  • R. Illingworth

    0 0%
  • Imran Khan

    34 77.27%
  • G. Sobers

    2 4.55%
  • S. Waugh

    2 4.55%
  • Other - please specify

    2 4.55%
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Thread: Greatest All-rounder if captaincy were to be included

  1. #16
    International Captain thierry henry's Avatar
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    S. Al Hasan, surely

  2. #17
    Hall of Fame Member Son Of Coco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Migara View Post
    In ODIs does anyone get near MS Dhoni in that aspect?
    When did Dhoni start bowling in ODI's?
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  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Migara View Post
    In ODIs does anyone get near MS Dhoni in that aspect?
    Dhoni does have a very good record in ODIs. Although he is not as good in tournaments involving more than 2 or more than 3 teams I think.

    Quote Originally Posted by BoyBrumby View Post
    Think captaining Pakistan so successfully derserves infinite kudos, tbh.
    LOL.......so true

    Quote Originally Posted by Son Of Coco View Post
    When did Dhoni start bowling in ODI's?
    Well his wicket keeping skills account for turning him into an all rounder. He can (and does walk into his side as a specialist wicket keeper).

  4. #19
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    This does not require too much thinking. I guess as an all rounder captain it is difficult to think past Imran (considering the bunch that he captained).

    However if this was a thread about the greatest captain ever then it there would have been some stiff competition amongst some very good captains.


  5. #20
    Hall of Fame Member Son Of Coco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by smalishah84 View Post
    Well his wicket keeping skills account for turning him into an all rounder. He can (and does walk into his side as a specialist wicket keeper).
    Nah, that makes him a wicketkeeper-batsman. An all-rounder bats and bowls.

  6. #21
    Global Moderator Matt79's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Son Of Coco View Post
    Nah, that makes him a wicketkeeper-batsman. An all-rounder bats and bowls.
    There is a school of thought that calls guys like Gilly, Flower and Dhoni, who would be selected purely as batsmen, allrounders.
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  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matt79 View Post
    There is a school of thought that calls guys like Gilly, Flower and Dhoni, who would be selected purely as batsmen, allrounders.
    True. Innovations demand a re-evaluation of past standards and definitions.

  8. #23
    International Captain ankitj's Avatar
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    Even without qualification (all-rounder or not), I will give it to Imran Khan. There have been other good captains who have worked very hard, but noone seemed to have created magic like Imran did, almost out of a fiction plot. To remain the only team not to lose to WI in 80's, to mentor the next generation of great Pakistani fast bowlers and to come out of retirement to win first world cup for his country. What else could a great captain dream to achieve!

  9. #24
    Hall of Fame Member Son Of Coco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matt79 View Post
    There is a school of thought that calls guys like Gilly, Flower and Dhoni, who would be selected purely as batsmen, allrounders.
    Yeah I know, it's one I don't agree with

    Being a slightly better batsman than what was the norm years ago still doesn't make you an all-rounder in my opinion. It's not 'innovative', it's just a bloke who bats well too. Gilly helped change the demands on how good a batsman your wicket-keeper should be. Don't see it as turning them into 'all-rounders' though.

    How does someone who never bowls have an 'all-round' game?

    Why can't Ponting be called an 'all-rounder' because he fields brilliantly then?

    As much as I'd love to see Gilly and some of the other keepers bowl, they're not all-rounders as far as I'm concerned. Don't think they need a special name to justify how good they are.
    Last edited by Son Of Coco; 16-10-2010 at 12:52 AM.

  10. #25
    International Debutant Black_Warrior's Avatar
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    Do I need to say anything?

  11. #26
    Hall of Fame Member Son Of Coco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Black_Warrior View Post
    Do I need to say anything?
    It depends...email me first to let me know if you agree or disagree, and we'll go from there.

  12. #27
    Global Moderator Matt79's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Son Of Coco View Post
    Yeah I know, it's one I don't agree with

    Being a slightly better batsman than what was the norm years ago still doesn't make you an all-rounder in my opinion. It's not 'innovative', it's just a bloke who bats well too. Gilly helped change the demands on how good a batsman your wicket-keeper should be. Don't see it as turning them into 'all-rounders' though.

    How does someone who never bowls have an 'all-round' game?

    Why can't Ponting be called an 'all-rounder' because he fields brilliantly then?

    As much as I'd love to see Gilly and some of the other keepers bowl, they're not all-rounders as far as I'm concerned. Don't think they need a special name to justify how good they are.
    I think the theory is that only if they would be selected purely as a batsman BUT THEN they also keep wickets, a la Gilly, Flower and Sanga that you would call them an allrounder. That's different from someone who bats at a Brad Haddin/Matt Prior standard, who is more the keeper who is also a better than average batsman (for a keeper).

  13. #28
    Hall of Fame Member Son Of Coco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matt79 View Post
    I think the theory is that only if they would be selected purely as a batsman BUT THEN they also keep wickets, a la Gilly, Flower and Sanga that you would call them an allrounder. That's different from someone who bats at a Brad Haddin/Matt Prior standard, who is more the keeper who is also a better than average batsman (for a keeper).
    Yeah, it is. But it still makes them an excellent wicketkeeper-batsman in my books.

    An all-round game includes bowling, and most all-rounders have to bat and bowl to a certain standard. What if a guy is an excellent first slip as well as a great batsman? Or an good second slip and an excellent batsman?

    Everybody has to field, but I think it's the extra time you put into all the disciplines that makes you an all-rounder.

    How about we just all agree to call the wicket-keepers who are great batsmen 'pac-men'? They're almost round, but there's a bit missing.

    That's pretty innovative

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    Quote Originally Posted by 8ankitj View Post
    Even without qualification (all-rounder or not), I will give it to Imran Khan. There have been other good captains who have worked very hard, but noone seemed to have created magic like Imran did, almost out of a fiction plot. To remain the only team not to lose to WI in 80's, to mentor the next generation of great Pakistani fast bowlers and to come out of retirement to win first world cup for his country. What else could a great captain dream to achieve!
    Hmmm. What about Stephen Fleming? He had a terrible team at his disposal and he worked wonders with the limited talent that he had at his disposal? But maybe you are right. It is difficult to find other captains who were so good. Clive Lloyd, Viv Richards, Steve Waugh, Mark Taylor, but all these guys had excellent teams at their disposal.

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Son Of Coco View Post
    Yeah, it is. But it still makes them an excellent wicketkeeper-batsman in my books.

    An all-round game includes bowling, and most all-rounders have to bat and bowl to a certain standard. What if a guy is an excellent first slip as well as a great batsman? Or an good second slip and an excellent batsman?

    Everybody has to field, but I think it's the extra time you put into all the disciplines that makes you an all-rounder.

    How about we just all agree to call the wicket-keepers who are great batsmen 'pac-men'? They're almost round, but there's a bit missing.

    That's pretty innovative
    LOL......good one

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