Greatest All-rounder if captaincy were to be included

[thierry henry]

S. Al Hasan, surely

[Son Of Coco]

Originally Posted by Migara

In ODIs does anyone get near MS Dhoni in that aspect?

When did Dhoni start bowling in ODI's?

[smalishah84]

Originally Posted by Migara

In ODIs does anyone get near MS Dhoni in that aspect?

Dhoni does have a very good record in ODIs. Although he is not as good in tournaments involving more than 2 or more than 3 teams I think.

Originally Posted by BoyBrumby

Think captaining Pakistan so successfully derserves infinite kudos, tbh.

LOL.......so true

Originally Posted by Son Of Coco

When did Dhoni start bowling in ODI's?

Well his wicket keeping skills account for turning him into an all rounder. He can (and does walk into his side as a specialist wicket keeper).

[smalishah84]

This does not require too much thinking. I guess as an all rounder captain it is difficult to think past Imran (considering the bunch that he captained).

However if this was a thread about the greatest captain ever then it there would have been some stiff competition amongst some very good captains.

[Son Of Coco]

Originally Posted by smalishah84

Well his wicket keeping skills account for turning him into an all rounder. He can (and does walk into his side as a specialist wicket keeper).

Nah, that makes him a wicketkeeper-batsman. An all-rounder bats and bowls.

[Matt79]

Originally Posted by Son Of Coco

Nah, that makes him a wicketkeeper-batsman. An all-rounder bats and bowls.

There is a school of thought that calls guys like Gilly, Flower and Dhoni, who would be selected purely as batsmen, allrounders.

[smalishah84]

Originally Posted by Matt79

There is a school of thought that calls guys like Gilly, Flower and Dhoni, who would be selected purely as batsmen, allrounders.

True. Innovations demand a re-evaluation of past standards and definitions.

[8ankitj]

Even without qualification (all-rounder or not), I will give it to Imran Khan. There have been other good captains who have worked very hard, but noone seemed to have created magic like Imran did, almost out of a fiction plot. To remain the only team not to lose to WI in 80's, to mentor the next generation of great Pakistani fast bowlers and to come out of retirement to win first world cup for his country. What else could a great captain dream to achieve!

[Son Of Coco]

Originally Posted by Matt79

There is a school of thought that calls guys like Gilly, Flower and Dhoni, who would be selected purely as batsmen, allrounders.

Yeah I know, it's one I don't agree with

Being a slightly better batsman than what was the norm years ago still doesn't make you an all-rounder in my opinion. It's not 'innovative', it's just a bloke who bats well too. Gilly helped change the demands on how good a batsman your wicket-keeper should be. Don't see it as turning them into 'all-rounders' though.

How does someone who never bowls have an 'all-round' game?

Why can't Ponting be called an 'all-rounder' because he fields brilliantly then?

As much as I'd love to see Gilly and some of the other keepers bowl, they're not all-rounders as far as I'm concerned. Don't think they need a special name to justify how good they are.

[Black_Warrior]

Do I need to say anything?

[Son Of Coco]

Originally Posted by Black_Warrior

Do I need to say anything?

It depends...email me first to let me know if you agree or disagree, and we'll go from there.

[Matt79]

Originally Posted by Son Of Coco

Yeah I know, it's one I don't agree with

Being a slightly better batsman than what was the norm years ago still doesn't make you an all-rounder in my opinion. It's not 'innovative', it's just a bloke who bats well too. Gilly helped change the demands on how good a batsman your wicket-keeper should be. Don't see it as turning them into 'all-rounders' though.

How does someone who never bowls have an 'all-round' game?

Why can't Ponting be called an 'all-rounder' because he fields brilliantly then?

As much as I'd love to see Gilly and some of the other keepers bowl, they're not all-rounders as far as I'm concerned. Don't think they need a special name to justify how good they are.

I think the theory is that only if they would be selected purely as a batsman BUT THEN they also keep wickets, a la Gilly, Flower and Sanga that you would call them an allrounder. That's different from someone who bats at a Brad Haddin/Matt Prior standard, who is more the keeper who is also a better than average batsman (for a keeper).

[Son Of Coco]

Originally Posted by Matt79

I think the theory is that only if they would be selected purely as a batsman BUT THEN they also keep wickets, a la Gilly, Flower and Sanga that you would call them an allrounder. That's different from someone who bats at a Brad Haddin/Matt Prior standard, who is more the keeper who is also a better than average batsman (for a keeper).

Yeah, it is. But it still makes them an excellent wicketkeeper-batsman in my books.

An all-round game includes bowling, and most all-rounders have to bat and bowl to a certain standard. What if a guy is an excellent first slip as well as a great batsman? Or an good second slip and an excellent batsman?

Everybody has to field, but I think it's the extra time you put into all the disciplines that makes you an all-rounder.

How about we just all agree to call the wicket-keepers who are great batsmen 'pac-men'? They're almost round, but there's a bit missing.

That's pretty innovative

[smalishah84]

Originally Posted by 8ankitj

Even without qualification (all-rounder or not), I will give it to Imran Khan. There have been other good captains who have worked very hard, but noone seemed to have created magic like Imran did, almost out of a fiction plot. To remain the only team not to lose to WI in 80's, to mentor the next generation of great Pakistani fast bowlers and to come out of retirement to win first world cup for his country. What else could a great captain dream to achieve!

Hmmm. What about Stephen Fleming? He had a terrible team at his disposal and he worked wonders with the limited talent that he had at his disposal? But maybe you are right. It is difficult to find other captains who were so good. Clive Lloyd, Viv Richards, Steve Waugh, Mark Taylor, but all these guys had excellent teams at their disposal.

[smalishah84]

Originally Posted by Son Of Coco

Yeah, it is. But it still makes them an excellent wicketkeeper-batsman in my books.

An all-round game includes bowling, and most all-rounders have to bat and bowl to a certain standard. What if a guy is an excellent first slip as well as a great batsman? Or an good second slip and an excellent batsman?

Everybody has to field, but I think it's the extra time you put into all the disciplines that makes you an all-rounder.

How about we just all agree to call the wicket-keepers who are great batsmen 'pac-men'? They're almost round, but there's a bit missing.

That's pretty innovative

LOL......good one