Who's the better lower order batsman?

Matt79 · 29-03-2010, 09:30 PM

Johnson or Hauritz? Johnson's batting seems to have reverted back towards the guy's mean. He's a good number 8, but not really an allrounder. Hauritz has been killing it in the lower order however.

Top_Cat · 29-03-2010, 09:34 PM

On par, tbh. Horrie better in defence but Johnson able to do the more speccie stuff on occasion. Ritz tougher to get out, I'd hazard.

Athlai · 29-03-2010, 09:34 PM

Johnson got more talent IMO, Hauritz got the guts though.

Matt79 · 29-03-2010, 09:35 PM

Some context for the argument - since the start of the Ashes, Johnson has scored 230 @ 13.52, with a HS of 63. Hauritz has scored 298 runs in two fewer matches @ 37.25, with a HS of 75.

Obviously, this timeframe precisely cuts out Johnson's steller series with the bat against SA, but I guess a part of my question is whether that series can now be seen as an abberration rather than the dawn of a new allrounder.

Much

to both players btw.

Pothas · 29-03-2010, 09:40 PM

Swann

Himannv · 30-03-2010, 12:26 AM

Johnson was never a batsman for me, just a bowler who could score a few quick boundries if needed, nothing more. I'm far more impressed with his obvious talent with the ball as opposed to the little contributions he may or may not bring with the bat. I dont think Australia need any more allrounders with Watson in their side.

Not a big fan of Hauritz with the ball. His contributions with the bat are rather secondary in that respect. Miss watching Warne tbh..

Matt79 · 30-03-2010, 12:47 AM

Kinda missing the point there Himannv. I'm not interested in weighing them as bowlers, but rather, as batsmen, given they're both secure in the team atm, yet Johnson is coming in ahead of Hauritz despite the disparity in their recent records I pointed out.

As to whether we "need" more allrounders, so long as they're good enough to merit selection on their stronger discipline alone (ie. Watson with the bat, Johnson with the ball), then you can never have too many allrounders - their second discipline is a bonus and the better they are at it the bigger the bonus.

vic_orthdox · 30-03-2010, 01:03 AM

I personally have long thought that Hauritz is a better batsman. Probably not capable of some of the things that Johnson is, but Johnson has a reasonably loose game, and will be prone to going through fits of form with the bat, and also some dry spots. Hauritz is a bit tighter in defence.

BoyBrumby · 30-03-2010, 01:10 AM

Rather like Warney, Johnson seems to give the impression to the casual observer that he could be better if he gave more of a toss. Based on the little I've seen he looks to have the bigger array of shots to choose from, but seems determined to deploy them at the earliest op.

As a semi-related aside, was the selection of Harris a 100% pukka bowling call or did his batting come into the equation too? If it's the latter with Johnson and Doogie Hauritz coming below Haddin it seems unduly conservative IMHO.

vic_orthdox · 30-03-2010, 01:18 AM

Nah, all on bowling. Known as a guy who can hold the willow, but not selected on it.

Basically has bullied his way into the side on the back of his super ODI performances, in which batting certainly wasn't a factor.

Noble One · 30-03-2010, 01:27 AM

Hauritz was always rated highly for his batting as a junior. Made the Austalian U19 team as much for his batting ability as his off-spin talent.

Johnson has some form issues currently. He rarely bats well when he attempts to hit out from ball 1. Helps explain his average record with the bat in ODIs. He will come good again, an average of 20-25 is more reflective of his ability.

Streetwise · 30-03-2010, 01:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Noble One

Hauritz was always rated highly for his batting as a junior. Made the Austalian U19 team as much for his batting ability as his off-spin talent.

Johnson has some form issues currently. He rarely bats well when he attempts to hit out from ball 1. Helps explain his average record with the bat in ODIs. He will come good again, an average of 20-25 is more reflective of his ability.

Nah Hauritz is just a slogger and not a very good number 8 batsman, apparently.

Spark · 30-03-2010, 01:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Noble One

Hauritz was always rated highly for his batting as a junior. Made the Austalian U19 team as much for his batting ability as his off-spin talent.

Johnson has some form issues currently. He rarely bats well when he attempts to hit out from ball 1. Helps explain his average record with the bat in ODIs. He will come good again, an average of 20-25 is more reflective of his ability.

Much like today. However in such situations... well, I don't think you can include situations like today into account. Sure he could have taken his time and gotten 30, 40 like Hauritz, but instead he decided to try and hit it into outer space instead. Doesn't always work.

Quote:

Not a big fan of Hauritz with the ball. His contributions with the bat are rather secondary in that respect. Miss watching Warne tbh..

I thought it had been realised by all and sundry that Warne was quite simply a freak. To expect any up and coming spinner to even be within the same order of magnitude as him in terms of talent and skill is quite foolish, so we should stop comparing Hauritz to Warne. Hauritz has a job to do in the team and shockers such as Sunday aside he's doing it well.

Himannv · 30-03-2010, 02:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt79

Kinda missing the point there Himannv. I'm not interested in weighing them as bowlers, but rather, as batsmen, given they're both secure in the team atm, yet Johnson is coming in ahead of Hauritz despite the disparity in their recent records I pointed out.

As to whether we "need" more allrounders, so long as they're good enough to merit selection on their stronger discipline alone (ie. Watson with the bat, Johnson with the ball), then you can never have too many allrounders - their second discipline is a bonus and the better they are at it the bigger the bonus.

Ah, well in that case, Johnson ahead of Hauritz. Just a matter of getting a bit of form I reckon.

Disagree on your allrounder theory though. I love Specialists.

GingerFurball · 30-03-2010, 05:32 AM

I don't think it's a case of one being better than the other, they just have differing strengths.

Johnson's a more destructive batsmen when he gets going, whereas Hauritz is more obdurate. Hauritz will probably end his career having been the more consistent batsmen, possibly with a higher average, however Johnson will have played more memorable innings.

IMO, purely because of his destructive capabilities, Johnson should bat 8, Hauritz 9. If your 10 and 11 were Glenn McGrath and Chris Martin, you'd be wasting what Johnson can bring to the side with the bat by batting him below Hauritz.

29-03-2010, 09:34 PM	#2 (permalink)
Top_Cat Cricket Web: All-Time Legend Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Adelaide, South Australia Posts: 21,186	On par, tbh. Horrie better in defence but Johnson able to do the more speccie stuff on occasion. Ritz tougher to get out, I'd hazard. __________________ Check out my bands! The Colourphonics http://www.youtube.com/user/TheColourphonics http://twitter.com/colourphonics Candice and The Arcade Villains http://triplejunearthed.com.au/Candi...ArcadeVillains

30-03-2010, 12:47 AM	#7 (permalink)
Matt79 Global Moderator Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Colll----ingggg---woooooodddd!!!! Posts: 17,427	Kinda missing the point there Himannv. I'm not interested in weighing them as bowlers, but rather, as batsmen, given they're both secure in the team atm, yet Johnson is coming in ahead of Hauritz despite the disparity in their recent records I pointed out. As to whether we "need" more allrounders, so long as they're good enough to merit selection on their stronger discipline alone (ie. Watson with the bat, Johnson with the ball), then you can never have too many allrounders - their second discipline is a bonus and the better they are at it the bigger the bonus. Last edited by Matt79; 30-03-2010 at 12:48 AM.

30-03-2010, 01:10 AM	#9 (permalink)
BoyBrumby Englishman Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Doing the stance Posts: 42,629	Rather like Warney, Johnson seems to give the impression to the casual observer that he could be better if he gave more of a toss. Based on the little I've seen he looks to have the bigger array of shots to choose from, but seems determined to deploy them at the earliest op. As a semi-related aside, was the selection of Harris a 100% pukka bowling call or did his batting come into the equation too? If it's the latter with Johnson and Doogie Hauritz coming below Haddin it seems unduly conservative IMHO. __________________ *- As featured in The Independent.* "This is not the time for namby-pamby promising youngsters who might just do something; not the time for building for the future. Pragmatism rules and they don't come more pragmatic than Rogers." - Victor Marks makes the case for stiff-legged and stiff-armed 35 year old left-handers in Ashes squads

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29-03-2010, 09:35 PM	#4 (permalink)
Matt79 Global Moderator Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Colll----ingggg---woooooodddd!!!! Posts: 17,427	Some context for the argument - since the start of the Ashes, Johnson has scored 230 @ 13.52, with a HS of 63. Hauritz has scored 298 runs in two fewer matches @ 37.25, with a HS of 75. Obviously, this timeframe precisely cuts out Johnson's steller series with the bat against SA, but I guess a part of my question is whether that series can now be seen as an abberration rather than the dawn of a new allrounder. Much to both players btw.

29-03-2010, 09:40 PM	#5 (permalink)
Pothas Cricketer Of The Year Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Surbiton, UK Posts: 8,454	Swann

30-03-2010, 12:26 AM	#6 (permalink)
Himannv International Captain Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: SL Posts: 6,167	Johnson was never a batsman for me, just a bowler who could score a few quick boundries if needed, nothing more. I'm far more impressed with his obvious talent with the ball as opposed to the little contributions he may or may not bring with the bat. I dont think Australia need any more allrounders with Watson in their side. Not a big fan of Hauritz with the ball. His contributions with the bat are rather secondary in that respect. Miss watching Warne tbh..

30-03-2010, 01:03 AM	#8 (permalink)
vic_orthdox Global Moderator Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 24,365	I personally have long thought that Hauritz is a better batsman. Probably not capable of some of the things that Johnson is, but Johnson has a reasonably loose game, and will be prone to going through fits of form with the bat, and also some dry spots. Hauritz is a bit tighter in defence.

30-03-2010, 01:18 AM	#10 (permalink)
vic_orthdox Global Moderator Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 24,365	Nah, all on bowling. Known as a guy who can hold the willow, but not selected on it. Basically has bullied his way into the side on the back of his super ODI performances, in which batting certainly wasn't a factor.

30-03-2010, 01:27 AM	#11 (permalink)
Noble One International Vice-Captain Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Australia Posts: 4,112	Hauritz was always rated highly for his batting as a junior. Made the Austalian U19 team as much for his batting ability as his off-spin talent. Johnson has some form issues currently. He rarely bats well when he attempts to hit out from ball 1. Helps explain his average record with the bat in ODIs. He will come good again, an average of 20-25 is more reflective of his ability.

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