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Thread: Appreciating good techniques

  1. #31
    International Captain King Pietersen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wfdu_ben91 View Post
    Not really, because the further you stand outside your crease, the less time it has to swing.
    As Richard rightly pointed out, unless you're half-way down the track, the ball is still going to have time to swing. The ball only needs to swing a couple of inches to successfully take the edge.

    As for your dig at me, I was genuinely asking a question, not trying to have a go. You're far too defensive for your own good.

  2. #32
    State Vice-Captain GuyFromLancs's Avatar
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    Technique is all in the eye of the beholder when you are playing. I've played a bit of cricket since the age of 8 or so, mainly as a batsman owed to a dodgy wrist, and one shot I have never been able to play that the pros do is the square cut of the back-foot. I like pulling off the back foot and driving straight off the front but I couldn't intentionally play behind square if my life depended on it. Too slow on my feet, too heavy a touch.

    I am interested in players who play this shot with ease. Andrew Strauss being one in the modern game.
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  3. #33
    Global Moderator Matt79's Avatar
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    On Ben's point re falling over trying to get you head online with the ball, isn't it:
    a) a footwork problem, rather than a head positioning problem, ie. if you're trying to put you head over the ball without moving your feet in a way to keep balanced, and
    b) a judgement issue, in that if you've moved to a position where your head is in line with your off stump, and you play a ball that is still moving outside that line, you're playing at a ball you can leave?
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  4. #34
    State 12th Man Jigga988's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard View Post
    Standing outside your crease can actually make things more difficult, because it reduces your reaction-time, something a top-quality, pacy swing bowler will relish.

    Also, if the bowler is less than express pace and not of giant height, it's easy to put a stop to if you've got a good-quality wicketkeeper in your side. Minute I see someone doing that to me I tell the wicketkeeper to come up to the stumps (if he hasn't spotted it and done it himself, which he mostly has).
    But surely the batsman has done his job if he gets the keeper to stand up - have no idea what level you play at, but in trial matches for U17 essex they really couldn't catch a thing standing up, depends how many slips you have I suppose, but it always makes an away-swinger less likely to take a wicket if the keepers up...
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  5. #35
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    Ugh @ where this thread has headed already.

    Ben, please, if you can't stick to what Matt very politely asked in the first post, I'd ask that you stop posting in the thread at all. Now, I'm just one member asking another so feel free to ignore but I'm just saying, there's no need to re-hash stuff done to death in other threads and not really related to this one. Your call.
    Last edited by Top_Cat; 09-03-2010 at 02:55 PM.

  6. #36
    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jigga988 View Post
    But surely the batsman has done his job if he gets the keeper to stand up - have no idea what level you play at, but in trial matches for U17 essex they really couldn't catch a thing standing up, depends how many slips you have I suppose, but it always makes an away-swinger less likely to take a wicket if the keepers up...
    Most of my outswingers get wickets because batsmen miss them by miles, only danger there is the wicketkeeper getting a bail in the eye. Yes, of course, if you have the 'keeper up to the stumps, he's not going to catch anything bar the thinnest of edges.

    The level I play at is not of any tremendous standard, BTW.

    If "doing your job" is getting someone to do something that disadvantages you, BTW, I'd say the job you've done is a pretty undesireable one.
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  7. #37
    State 12th Man Jigga988's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard View Post
    Most of my outswingers get wickets because batsmen miss them by miles, only danger there is the wicketkeeper getting a bail in the eye. Yes, of course, if you have the 'keeper up to the stumps, he's not going to catch anything bar the thinnest of edges.

    The level I play at is not of any tremendous standard, BTW.

    If "doing your job" is getting someone to do something that disadvantages you, BTW, I'd say the job you've done is a pretty undesireable one.
    Well if you can swing it from leg to off every time fair play, I was just assuming the mode of dismissal for an outswinger would be edges hence why it would be advantageous for the batsmen as it minimises this threat...
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  8. #38
    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    I only rarely get outside-edges, and when I do they tend to be real quality batsmen who've not got their eye in (any decent batsman who has got his eye in tends to have not-that-much trouble with me because I can only swing it in one direction and I'm neither remotely tall or all that quick). I get loads of batsmen - RHBs and LHBs - bowled with the outswinger (inswinger to a LHB) though.
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  9. #39
    State 12th Man Jigga988's Avatar
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    Sound like England could use a guy like you in Bangladesh...

    More to the topic, in personal experience regarding swing always felt it was more about seem position and the body shape that was related to it was done purely to make the seem face either leg slip or the conventional slip...

    If I'm bowling an inswinger I will tend to bowl almost the opposite to what coaches will advise, i.e. instead of getting side on, you almost have to bowl sort of front on to get your wrist heading to leg slip without just bowling a ball down legside... Always found away swing far more natural, I personally bowl it sort of round arm (not malinga or edwards style) as Richard said which enables the wrist to point to the slips without the ball being too wide of off stump...

    Sorry for the poor explanations, wording has never been a strong suit of mine...
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  10. #40
    Global Moderator vic_orthdox's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matt79 View Post
    On Ben's point re falling over trying to get you head online with the ball, isn't it:
    a) a footwork problem, rather than a head positioning problem, ie. if you're trying to put you head over the ball without moving your feet in a way to keep balanced, and
    b) a judgement issue, in that if you've moved to a position where your head is in line with your off stump, and you play a ball that is still moving outside that line, you're playing at a ball you can leave?
    Yeah, pretty much it.

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard View Post
    I could go over it again, but I won't do, because I unlike some am a considerate person who doesn't want to bore everyone to death with posting of the type they're utterly sick of.

    Suffice to say that in none of those examples, except possibly the lattermost, did Hayden successfully combat the swinging ball.
    Agree to disagree then. I know that he did have to encounter swing bowling for the majority of his career post 2000/01, merely because I watched him bat. You can believe whatever you want, but you couldn't possibly prove that he didn't.

    Unless you're advocating standing halfway down the pitch it still has time to swing easily enough to cause batsmen problems if the bowler is one who aims his deliveries rather than acts on a metronome.
    Yeah, do you reckon it's easier to counteract swing bowling when the ball is swinging slightly or a mile? By standing outside your crease, you have get a little bit've swing, but by standing on your crease gives the ball a better chance for the ball to move more then what it would if you were standing outside of your crease and hence is even more difficult to face.

    Standing outside your crease also forces the bowlers to change up their length, so unless they bowl half volley length then you're in no real danger of getting out LBW because of how far the ball still has to travel.

    Quote Originally Posted by King Pietersen View Post
    As Richard rightly pointed out, unless you're half-way down the track, the ball is still going to have time to swing. The ball only needs to swing a couple of inches to successfully take the edge.

    As for your dig at me, I was genuinely asking a question, not trying to have a go. You're far too defensive for your own good.
    Pretty hard to know when you turn off your VM's and take digs at me in other threads, tbh.

  12. #42
    Request Your Custom Title Now! Uppercut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wfdu_ben91 View Post
    Yeah, do you reckon it's easier to counteract swing bowling when the ball is swinging slightly or a mile?
    Is it clear cut? T_C would argue that it's toughest when the ball moves just enough to take the edge.

  13. #43
    SJS
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    We need to be clear what we mean by more or less swing. Are we referring to lateral movement from the time it starts to change course till it reaches the batsman (or wicket) or are we talking of the angle of swerve.

    The swinging ball becomes more difficult when it swings late. Of course it swings late then it means it is happening later in its flight so it has less distance to travel. This means that for the same 'angle' of swerve' it would move less laterally.

    The greater angle of swerve beats you by a bigger margin for sure whether it does more damage or less will depend upon where it was when it started swinging and whether it is coming in to the batsman or going away.

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uppercut View Post
    Is it clear cut? T_C would argue that it's toughest when the ball moves just enough to take the edge.
    Well it's not. The less it swings the easier it is to counteract and the easier it is to hit.

  15. #45
    Global Moderator vic_orthdox's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SJS View Post
    We need to be clear what we mean by more or less swing. Are we referring to lateral movement from the time it starts to change course till it reaches the batsman (or wicket) or are we talking of the angle of swerve.

    The swinging ball becomes more difficult when it swings late. Of course it swings late then it means it is happening later in its flight so it has less distance to travel. This means that for the same 'angle' of swerve' it would move less laterally.

    The greater angle of swerve beats you by a bigger margin for sure whether it does more damage or less will depend upon where it was when it started swinging and whether it is coming in to the batsman or going away.
    Speaks the truth.

    Those who get the ball to start swinging just before the ball bounces are the most lethal, as the batsman has less time to pick up how much the ball is actually swinging, and then there's the possibility of the ball hitting the seam and doing something all-together different.

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