***Official*** Tendulkar vs Ponting Thread

[Jono]

I'm not saying he couldn't play spin in 2008, sorry I was just saying he didn't score well. Apologies for the confusion.

He actually was out to Ishant and Zaheer more than the spinners in 2008.

 

[aussie]

Yeah, same point really. Don't base my opinions on that either. It's probably the crux of why we disagree on certain things when we do; we approach the way we rate players entirely differently.

Indeed. But at least we can/have been able to debate it in a civil way, which is generally not the case with a few others on CW these days.

 

[aussie]

I'm not saying he couldn't play spin in 2008, sorry I was just saying he didn't score well. Apologies for the confusion.

He actually was out to Ishant and Zaheer more than the spinners in 2008.

Yea, but that was just top reverse-swing bowling that would have gotten most batsmen out.

The whole "Ponting failures in India argument", was because he failed the spin test.

 

[Jono]

I agree, I'm not disputing your point. Just saying I misunderstood your post

 

[Sanz]

Say "I was wrong" 5 times.

 

[honestbharani]

Bagapath, Any chance of directing a Hindi movie ?

Casting the superstar, if I may add?

 

[Sanz]

Amit ?

 

[honestbharani]

I dunno about that one mate, but I was doing some crunching of my own yesterday. It's been annoying me of late how many Tendulkar v Ponting comparisons are coming up. Even the Cricinfo stats article about Tendulkar the other day slipped one in at the end. It's especially annoying since these last 3 years have been possibly the worst of Ponting's career, with Sachin has enjoyed a resurgence. I can't remember too many comparsions in the mid 2000s when Sachin was tanking and Ricky was peerless. But anyway...

The other thing about these comparisons that bugs me is that we always compare careers. But SRT has played for more than 20 years, where the average career would be lucky to be 10. It's not so annoying in the Tendulkar v Ponting comparison, but with every run Tendulkar scores it makes Lara, Steve Waugh etc. look worse because they only played for 10-15 years. I don't think that's fair.

So what I did was find out who had the best 10 year period - an average man's career. I also took out the matches v Bangladesh and Zimbabwe, which penalises Tendulkar a little more than Ponting.

Tendulkar's best 10 year period? Either:
1992-2001: 68 Tests, 6071 runs @ 61.32, 24 100s, 89.28 runs/M, 100 every 2.83 Tests
or 1993-2002: 76 Tests, 6790 runs @ 60.63, 24 100s, 89.34 runs/M, 100 every 3.17 Tests
The second period SRT scores more runs, but his rate stats are slightly worse. Depends what you value really as to what you think is best.

Ponting's best 10 year period?
1999-2008: 98 Tests, 8938 runs @ 60.80, 33 100s, 91.20 runs/M, 100 every 2.97 Tests

Virtually equal to my eyes. Ponting scored more runs in his best 10 years, but he played more Tests. That's about the only major difference. Given that, overall I'd have to favour Tendulkar ever so slightly given the gun to the head choice, given that his career outside those 10 years has been more impressive than Ponting's. But the whole point of this is that Ponting at his best versus Tendulkar at his best are pretty much the same. The dodgy 'Tendulkar v Ponting since 2007' comparisons going around do not do justice to their equality because in my eyes they are virtually equal.

ODI cricket though would give Tendulkar a little more of an advantage.
Tendulkar's best 10 ODI years, either:
1994-2003: 238 ODIs, 9893 runs @ 46.45, S/R: 88.06, 31 100s
or 2001-2010: 165 ODIs, 7024 runs @ 48.44, S/R: 86.39, 17 100s

Ponting's best years, either:
1998-2007: 215 ODIs, 8556 runs @ 45.75, S/R: 82.50, 20 100s
2001-2010: 215 ODIs, 8516 runs @ 44.82, S/R: 84.98, 21 100s

Hope you enjoyed it...

Can we get similar for the other greats? Lara, SRW, Viv, Greg Chappell etc?

 

[aussie]

I agree, I'm not disputing your point. Just saying I misunderstood your post

Cool.

 

[Ikki]

Bar one knock he basically failed in 2008.

Looked much better this series.

I'd say two. He scored 123 in Bangalore and 87 in Delhi.

 

[Jono]

87 is a failure for Australians.

 

[kingjulian]

I dunno about that one mate, but I was doing some crunching of my own yesterday. It's been annoying me of late how many Tendulkar v Ponting comparisons are coming up. Even the Cricinfo stats article about Tendulkar the other day slipped one in at the end. It's especially annoying since these last 3 years have been possibly the worst of Ponting's career, with Sachin has enjoyed a resurgence. I can't remember too many comparsions in the mid 2000s when Sachin was tanking and Ricky was peerless. But anyway...

The other thing about these comparisons that bugs me is that we always compare careers. But SRT has played for more than 20 years, where the average career would be lucky to be 10. It's not so annoying in the Tendulkar v Ponting comparison, but with every run Tendulkar scores it makes Lara, Steve Waugh etc. look worse because they only played for 10-15 years. I don't think that's fair.

So what I did was find out who had the best 10 year period - an average man's career. I also took out the matches v Bangladesh and Zimbabwe, which penalises Tendulkar a little more than Ponting.

Tendulkar's best 10 year period? Either:
1992-2001: 68 Tests, 6071 runs @ 61.32, 24 100s, 89.28 runs/M, 100 every 2.83 Tests
or 1993-2002: 76 Tests, 6790 runs @ 60.63, 24 100s, 89.34 runs/M, 100 every 3.17 Tests
The second period SRT scores more runs, but his rate stats are slightly worse. Depends what you value really as to what you think is best.

Ponting's best 10 year period?
1999-2008: 98 Tests, 8938 runs @ 60.80, 33 100s, 91.20 runs/M, 100 every 2.97 Tests

Virtually equal to my eyes. Ponting scored more runs in his best 10 years, but he played more Tests. That's about the only major difference. Given that, overall I'd have to favour Tendulkar ever so slightly given the gun to the head choice, given that his career outside those 10 years has been more impressive than Ponting's. But the whole point of this is that Ponting at his best versus Tendulkar at his best are pretty much the same. The dodgy 'Tendulkar v Ponting since 2007' comparisons going around do not do justice to their equality because in my eyes they are virtually equal.

ODI cricket though would give Tendulkar a little more of an advantage.
Tendulkar's best 10 ODI years, either:
1994-2003: 238 ODIs, 9893 runs @ 46.45, S/R: 88.06, 31 100s
or 2001-2010: 165 ODIs, 7024 runs @ 48.44, S/R: 86.39, 17 100s

Ponting's best years, either:
1998-2007: 215 ODIs, 8556 runs @ 45.75, S/R: 82.50, 20 100s
2001-2010: 215 ODIs, 8516 runs @ 44.82, S/R: 84.98, 21 100s

Hope you enjoyed it...

1992 to 2002 was a tougher period to bat than 1999 to 2008 by about 10% statistically, so perhaps Sachin has the edge after all?

The decade of the batsmen | Regulars | Cricinfo Magazine | Cricinfo.com

It would be absolutely amazing to see the cumulative average of all the bowlers that each player faced (suitable qualification on minimum number of balls faced can be added 100 balls?).

Batting average combined with cumulative opposition bowler's average would give a better picture of the quality of the batsmen i think. Only, i don't really know how to work the statistic page to achieve that.

 

[Cevno]

I don't buy this 10 year period rather than 20 argument.

Sachin has had 2 great careers tolled into one,where has faced ups and downs ,got career threatening injuries and has played in right from mediocre teams to a very good one with and without batting support.

You just have to consider the longevity of the man as even by the 10 year best period category ,he can be listed twice among the best batsmen in history and that is sensational.

 

[Cevno]

for what it is worth i think ponting has inched closer to sachin overall with his two fantastic knocks in the ongoing test. except his indian record there is absolutely no gap in his resume. he has tried his best to rectify that and even though he has not completed the task, one cant ask for more.

Very interesting you say that seeing Sachin's performance in the same tests.

If we are comparing the whole career records then Ponting's record is still poor in India.

Great Batsmen,and looked more comfortable against spin in this series,and does improve his rating for me ,but Sachin is increasing the lead with every match.

 

[Jono]

Lol, the difference between 12 years and 15 is fair enough to say its kind of negligible.

But when we're talking 21 years and counting, and not taking that into account... well its ludicrous.

 

[kingkallis]

..........and Tendulkar beats Ponting again

 

[duffer]

Sachin's got a few more years left in him. Whether he'll get to 60 should be the real question. I think 100 international centuries is more or less a given now.

 

[Jono]

Nah reckon Sachin will only play to 55 years old. 56 max. Not 60.

 

[Shri]

Nah reckon Sachin will only play to 55 years old. 56 max. Not 60.

AWTJoni.

 

[Teja.]

Tendy has moved from 56.1 to 57 in 1 test. Only a matter of time before he hits 60 IMO.