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Thread: The ``ASHES`` and the Pietersen diillema

  1. #16
    U19 12th Man pakster's Avatar
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    I sure as hell hope that England win, aussie dominence is becomming too much to bare.

    With trescothick, piterson, flintoff, strauss and vaughn - eng definatley have the batting quality to take them through, its the bowling that worries me. Flintoff will be comming back from injury and will lack rythem (sp?), harmison has been found wanting of late and the less said about giles, the better. Kabir Ali (as much as it hurts me to say it) doesnt really look test standard and simon Jones is hit and miss. Anderson is still living off that performance against pak in the WC, he hasnt really done anything since.

    Having said that, I think eng are probably the only team around that could give the aussies a run for their money (in test matches at least!)
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  2. #17
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    i dont really follow english cricmuch but from what im reading i see no mention of hoggard. he not worthy ?
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  3. #18
    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BoyBrumby
    But lately Neil's spot-on as far as The Ashes goes; we get off to a poo start & never recover until the urn's gone for another two years.
    In each of the last 3 it's always been before the start of the series that things have started to go wrong.
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  4. #19
    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BoyBrumby
    Nah, gotta go with KP.

    Vaughan to 3, Thorpe to 4, KP slots in @ 5.

    It's a long while since Butch made a test ton & he seems to be forever finding new & exciting ways to get himself injured.
    With Butcher missing the start of the season, sadly, I don't see him starting the series. Which means Pietersen will have to fail (and I really don't want that) for him to get in.
    Yet I believe beyond all question that the side's stronger with him in it.
    And anyone who thinks Trescothick's better than him is delusional.


  5. #20
    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BoyBrumby
    Winning in SA was a big result for us & we did it without many of our players really turning up. Harmy seemed to be pining for the North-East, Thorpey played a couple of decent innings but was below par elsewhere (I hope age isn't finally catching up with him), Vaughan was a good skipper but distinctly average batter, both Butch & Key failed to impress @ 3 & Geraint was average with the bat and worse with the gloves.
    You've got to be joking about Harmison and "pining for the North-East" - the West Indies last spring totally devalues anything there.
    The fact is, some players did better than could be expected and some disappointed (Thorpe wasn't really disappointing, it was just an inevitable downturn - he couldn't go on averaging 60 forever; Butcher never got going; Vaughan likewise, really; Jones looked far too frenzied with the bat and just didn't concentrate with the gloves).
    KP looks to the manor born; I know it's tempting to read more into ODI form as a guide for tests than is sometimes prudent, but jeez he showed a good temperament over there.
    And the fact that he did well in the ODIs doesn't matter much as far as Tests are concerned; his First-Class record is what matters.

  6. #21
    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aussie
    But now england will go into the ahses with 5 straight series win and with a better talent to call up on that in 2001. Lets look at the batting trescothick, strauss, vaughan, pietersen, freddie, thorpe, bell, butcher and key... In the bowling hoggy, the durham destroyer, the welch wrecker, the king of spain, freddie, wonder boy anderson and if england want horses for courses jon lewis or martin saggers.
    Better talent?
    I don't really think so.
    Trescothick isn't Test-class and I've never thought he was, but the batting is at least close to as good as 2001, with Butcher, Strauss, Vaughan and Thorpe, plus maybe Flintoff, and Jones if he can get his head together. I still don't think it's as good as Butcher, Atherton, Hussain, Vaughan, Stewart, Thorpe, Ramprakash, White, though - and it's not as if that played much in 2001, because of all the injuries.
    The bowling, however, is a joke compared to how 2001 looked before injuries and poor form struck at the wrong time again.
    Harmison - has had a single (sensational) 7-Test spell in his career.
    Jones - not exactly anything resembling a proven force
    Giles - a fingerspinner
    Flintoff - we'll wait and see whether Australia keep-up the poor strokes. Be interesting if they do
    Anderson - best thing that can happen is for him not to play

  7. #22
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    I think we'll know by lunch on the first day, the opening exchanges will set the tone for the entire series.
    Generally but it didn't in 1997 (Australia were, what, 7 for 80-odd?).

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Top_Cat
    Generally but it didn't in 1997 (Australia were, what, 7 for 80-odd?).
    The only way England can put any pressure on australia, whatsoever, is if their bowlers really do some early damage. For that we need some dramatic revival in Harmison's form and much better support at the other end too.

    England's batting, though not as devastating as the Aussies appears, is much better than it has looked for a long time and the Australian batting has started showing a bit of inconsistency.

    This is the time but do England have the bowling ???

  9. #24
    International 12th Man Crazy Sam's Avatar
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    i still can't see australia losing 3 tests out of 5, which is what england need to regain the ashes.
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  10. #25
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    If England want to win, their bowling must be running hot.

    If they can crack this lineup, they can crack any lineup.

    Also, they'll need to negate or at least restrict the time-and-again matchwinners for Australia - Warne, McGrath and Gilchrist. I know the rest can win games on their own, but these three are something special. India restricted Gilly on their last tour here and kept their grubby mitts on the B-GT for eight months too many.

    And the batsmen have to not collapse........

    That's my $500,000.02 (fined for national disloyalty).
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  11. #26
    Virat Kohli (c) Jono's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crazy Sam
    i still can't see australia losing 3 tests out of 5, which is what england need to regain the ashes.
    Yeah that's a fairly accurate post, I'm in the same boat. I can see a fairly competitive series (By God I'm hoping for one) but I really can't see Australia losing 3. I don't even see a drawn series occuring but if it did I wouldn't be too surprised as this England outfit is much better and more mature (as well as attacking) compared to previous teams. I don't see Vaughan putting Australia in to bat out of fear like other teams seem to do in both ODIs and Tests.

    Either way I'm looking forward to this series a lot. I'm not over-excited to the extent that I believe Australia are going to definitely be challenged and will lose the Ashes, whilst at the same time I'm not a pessimist who believes that this England team is all hype and Australia have it in the bag and thus will continue to 'ruin cricket'. I'm smack bang in the middle, awaiting and hoping for a good series no matter who wins.
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  12. #27
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    Unless weather intervenes, I can't see anything other than a 5-0 whitewash by Australia. Even if they get into trouble in the odd period in the series, they have so many options to get out of it and still win the test .

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crazy Sam
    i still can't see australia losing 3 tests out of 5, which is what england need to regain the ashes.
    If England get one up, they'll pick 11 batsmen for the rest of the series.
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  14. #29
    Cricket Web Moderator Neil Pickup's Avatar
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    I'm still backing Australia as they have done it all before. If England fire with 9 or 10 players at a time then we have a chance, but I expect the Australians' experience to carry the day.

    Just to quantify my earlier statement a bit more, I can't see us coming back from a bad first session. Australia (for experience reasons) may well be able to recover, but if we collapse or get carted on day one, then there will be little coming back.
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  15. #30
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    in my usual patriotic self, i feel that England are going to push the Aussies this series.

    i feel the injection of Strauss and Pietersen over the last few months in the batting department is going to prove vital. It is essential that Strauss, Pietersen and either of Thorpe/Vaughan have a good series, and a couple of brutal knocks from Freddie/Jones/Trescotkick, if england are to rival the Aussie batting. the two important players here for me will be Strauss and Pietersen as they seem to be looking really GOOOD at the moment.

    Hoggy and Freddie are gonna have to be replicate whatever line and length McGrath and Gillespie produce. Harmy should return to form so we can have the fury that Lee gives the Aussie bowling. Simon Jones/ Anderson are gonna have to rise to the occasion the way Kasprowizs does whenever called upon.

    I feel that if engalnd are going to win, then it is going to be down to the balance that Freddie gives us.

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