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Thread: Countries with the most overseas born International players over the years??

  1. #1
    International Coach Zinzan's Avatar
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    Countries with the most overseas born International players over the years??

    Is any country even close to England in this respect??

    It amazes me how many overseas born internationals have represented England over the years. Not sure what the explanation is...Ironically they have often been some of their better international players..

    Most over the years seem to be S.Africans which is explained by the Apartheid in the 70s and 80s...

    Obvious ones that spring to mind are.......

    Strauss (s.a)
    Peterson (s.a)
    Hussian (india)
    Hick (zim)
    Caddick (NZ)
    G Jones (PNG)
    Robin Smith (S.A)
    Lamb (s.a)
    Both Hollioakes (aust)
    Allan Lamb (s.a)
    Tony Greig (S.A)

    Have I missed any??

    I sure I have.....Has anyone got an explaination for this incredible phenomenon?

    The only reasons I can think of are...

    1) The S.A Apartheid 1970s-80s - which saw lots a good african cricketers wanting to play international cricket.

    and

    2) County cricket - which generally has more international players than anywhere else.


    Is it just me or is it an incredibly high number??

    Note..

    NZ has a few Aussie born players I can think of

    Sinclair
    Styris
    and
    Canning

    and
    twose (eng)
    Patel (kenya)

    Any others for England or other countries??

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    First Class Debutant cric_manic's Avatar
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    I thought that patel was from india......

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    Australia had Keppler Wessels in the late 70s but no i dont think any country has nearly as many as England.

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    International Coach Zinzan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cric_manic
    I thought that patel was from india......
    Dipak Patel was born in Nairobi, Kenya I'm pretty sure


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    International Coach social's Avatar
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    Mike Brierley - India
    Ted Dexter - Italy
    Jason Gallian - lived in Aus until 18 0r 19
    Ian Grieg - SA
    Martin Macuage (?) - Aus
    Basil D'Oliveira - SA
    Geoff Boycott - Yorkshire

  6. #6
    International Coach Zinzan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by social
    Mike Brierley - India
    Ted Dexter - Italy
    Jason Gallian - lived in Aus until 18 0r 19
    Ian Grieg - SA
    Martin Macuage (?) - Aus
    Basil D'Oliveira - SA
    Geoff Boycott - Yorkshire
    Thanks (apart from Boycott )

    Any Idea why England are so high??

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    Quote Originally Posted by zinzan12
    Thanks (apart from Boycott )

    Any Idea why England are so high??
    Probably got something to do with their complete innability to produce quality players on a regular basis.

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    International Coach social's Avatar
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    It used to be easier to obtain a visa for England than, say, Australia for certain nationalities. I am not sure whether this is still the case.

    To qualify as an "English" player for fc purposes is no more difficult than proving the existence of a grand-parent that was born in England.

    Gallian and McCauge felt that their career prospects were better in England.

    The South Africans had no career prospects in their homeland for a 20 year period.

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    When it comes to State expatriates, Queensland wins for sure.
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    Hall of Fame Member Son Of Coco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by social
    Mike Brierley - India
    Ted Dexter - Italy
    Jason Gallian - lived in Aus until 18 0r 19
    Ian Grieg - SA
    Martin Macuage (?) - Aus
    Basil D'Oliveira - SA
    Geoff Boycott - Yorkshire
    Alan Mullaly is another one

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    Englishman BoyBrumby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Son Of Coco
    Alan Mullaly is another one
    Nope. Nor McCague or Craig White. All UK-born, but Oz raised. I think Mullaly was born in Southend in Essex. I would still classify them as Aussies, but not strictly foreign-born.

    I think this is one field of cricket where we are undoubted world-leaders! We've also had the 3 Indian princes (Ranjitsinhji, Duleepsinhji & Nawab of Pataudi Senior) &, aside from those already mentioned, many of the great and the good of English cricket aren't quite as English as all that!

    Foreign born that I know of (list not exhaustive by any means):

    Lord Harris (Trinidad)
    Gubby Allen (Oz)
    Doublas Jardine (India, of Scottish antecedents)
    Plum Warner (SA)
    Freddy Brown (Peru!)
    Colin Cowdrey (India)
    Bob Woolmer (India)
    Phil Edmonds (Zambia, then Northern Rhodesia)
    Robin Jackman (India)
    Derek Pringle (Kenya)
    Chris Smith (Robinís bro, SA)
    Neal Radford (SA)
    Gladstone Small (Barbados)
    Demot Reeve (Hong Kong)
    Phil De Freitas (Dominica)
    Dev Malcolm (Jamaica)
    Chris Lewis (Guyana)
    Min Patel (India)
    Usman Afzaal (Pakistan)


    & that's without including yer Sweaties & yer Taffs!

    I guess there are a number of reasons, some (like Small, Lewis, Malcolm & De Freitas, Patel, Afzaal) came to England with their parents as small children, others came from apartheid SA to play test cricket, some were born of English parents in the time of Empire (Cowdrey, Jackman, Woolmer) & some (especially those Oz-raised) have used UK connections to further their cricketing careers.
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    International Regular twctopcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Camel56
    Probably got something to do with their complete innability to produce quality players on a regular basis.
    What a conclusive arguement.
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    State Captain Chubb's Avatar
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    I think the Empire is the major factor here. Most English-named south africans can trace their ancestry back to England and the same for Australia and New Zealand. Ranjii, Duleep and Pataudi were indian aristos and so probably felt very close to England. So, we ended up with a lot of people who could claim citizenship via descent a la Pietersen and others.
    In addition to that there was and still is a lot of emigration by English people to South Africa, and the other countries and a lot back again from India etc. That is a good thing, and I think it's wrong to class Nasser and Solanki etc. as foreign players because I doubt either thinks they aren't English.

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    SJS
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chubb
    I think the Empire is the major factor here. Most English-named south africans can trace their ancestry back to England and the same for Australia and New Zealand. Ranjii, Duleep and Pataudi were indian aristos and so probably felt very close to England. So, we ended up with a lot of people who could claim citizenship via descent a la Pietersen and others.
    In addition to that there was and still is a lot of emigration by English people to South Africa, and the other countries and a lot back again from India etc. That is a good thing, and I think it's wrong to class Nasser and Solanki etc. as foreign players because I doubt either thinks they aren't English.
    I think thats right upto a certain period in time. It also included Englishmen who were born abroad while their fathers were on active duty on different frontiers of the Empire.

    After the end of the Raj, it has more to do with England, of all the major test playing nations, attracting more migrants from the subcontinent, for example than other countries whose second and third generation IN ADDITION are more inclined to taking up cricket than , say, soccer and have been competing for spots.

    I am sure if USA was to have a team, it would include a very large number of immigrants too. More than UK.
    Last edited by SJS; 10-02-2005 at 04:46 AM.

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    I really couldn't care less where people were born, or even raised, all I give a damn about is who they want to play for.
    It truly astounds me that as late as 1991 you still had to be Yorkshire-born to play for us.
    Such antiquated methods have clearly become untenable and these days seem unthinkable.
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