England's line-up

[GIMH]

The road to thread is very Aussiecentric so it seemed to me to make sense to start a new one for the England discussion

Main points of contention are who comes in for KP should he miss out, and who gets the third seamer spot if they are all fit.

Barstow and Finn you'd have thought?

[Furball]

Finn should be nowhere near the lineup if everyone's fit, he's rubbish.

Either if Bresnan or Tremlett. I'd go with Jimmeh-Broad-Bresnan personally if they're all fit.

[marc71178]

I think Bresnan is ahead of Finn assuming he's improved from his recent pre-op showings.

[social]

Bresnan's performances have definitely been affected by his injury but, by the same token, I also think that he over-performed massively in the early stages of his test career and they would have tapered off in any event e.g. has an early 30s fc bowling average and 27 fc batting average so you had to figure that his form was never going to be sustained

[flibbertyjibber]

Need to see if Bresnan has that nip back before we say he is an ashes contender. Would say that we also need to wait and see over Swann, yes he says he feels good but he needs to perform against NZ first and show he is back to form.

[Cabinet96]

Bresnan's performances have definitely been affected by his injury but, by the same token, I also think that he over-performed massively in the early stages of his test career and they would have tapered off in any event e.g. has an early 30s fc bowling average and 27 fc batting average so you had to figure that his form was never going to be sustained

He did make his FC debut aged 18, although I'm not sure how much he would've played as a teenager, Cribb to confirm. Importantly though, I think all who saw him will agree that Bresnan improved massively throughout 2010. I'd like to see him really get stuck into the Championship before he's back for England though. Keep him in the county circuit until the Champions Trophy and then if he's been performing in the, what will be several games for Yorkshire by then, then he's a shout.

I'd definitely be considering Onions ahead of Finn for the NZ series, and even Woakes at 7. I just haven't been impressed by Finn in test cricket over the last couple of years. He's had his moments, Lords against the Saffa's and Kolkata the most obvious ones, but I just don't think he does enough with the ball to really cause issues in test cricket at the moment. And for all the talk about his pace, he's not bowling any quicker than Bresnan was pre elbow injury, and the latter could swing both the new and old nut. Finn doesn't even have the knack of picking up cheap wickets like he did in Australia anymore either.

Tremlett's Championship return this week was far from encouraging, but it was probably a typical flat Oval wicket. Nonetheless, I probably wouldn't really be looking at him for this summer unless he starts doing something spectacular. He's probably got to go to Australia, but I don't even think he's among the best three options when he's fully fit and at his best for games in England.

So long story shot, I'd want Bres as the 3rd seamer if he does well for Yorkshire in the first half of the summer; if not, Onions. Regarding the batting; see who's done better in the Championship by July.

[Dan]

Bresnan, if he's 100% fit and bowling with pace, is probably the third best seamer in the country.

How close would someone like Toby Roland-Jones be to England selection? He has a bloody good FC record and looks to be in some pretty decent form. Would he be better than Finn? If not, where would you rank him in the list of English seamers?


In terms of the batting, Joe Root has to retain his spot and bat 5, surely. 6 is still an issue though; Bairstow seems to be in pretty gash form at the moment. Taylor could be an option, 5 bowlers with Woakes and Bres providing a very solid tail, Ben Stokes or perhaps Gary Ballance could fill that spot.

[Daemon]

Onions

[uvelocity]

worst thread ever

[GIMH]

I'm not gonna pretend that didn't hurt, uve.

[theegyptian]

Onions

The problem with Onions is that he is a very attacking bowler and especially in the last couple of years he has become the fulcrum of the durham attack where he will go fullout attack on a poor durham wicket.

Put him in as the third seamer in a 4 man attack on a good wicket and he can be expensive and won't fulfil the role england need from him. I'd play him at Chester-Le-Street and open the bowling with him but the other games probably not.

Finn has the same problem and you couldn't play him if he continued to bowl the same way as in NZ.

Bresnan and Tremlett work best to compliment the rest of the attack and to bowl in pairs with Broad and Anderson but the attack has lost a bit of its cutting edge over the last year or two.

Anderson bowls well but no longer takes lots of wickets. Maybe it's just sample size and he's been playing on slow wickets or maybe he's just lost a bit of his pace.

[uvelocity]

I'm not gonna pretend that didn't hurt, uve.

content not execution fella

[Cabinet96]

Uve, you make a good point, this is a bad thread. Can a moderator please move all these posts into the thread the Aussies were using to discuss their team.

[Adders]

worst thread ever

Well this thread can hardly compete with the 113 pages in the other thread where you Aussies are desperately trying to work out out who the **** you can try next.

Have you got the call from Invers yet Uvo????

[Cabinet96]

But yeah, one of the reasons Bresnan works well as a 3rd seamer is because he really dries up the runs when he's bowling well. Him coming in for Finn in the Ashes last year didn't just make an improvement to the bowling attack in that position, it also made an improvement to the rest of the attack, as the pressure wasn't being leaked every time the openers weren't bowling. I think that skill in a bowler is really underrated, and it's particularly important in a 4 man attack. It makes all the other bowlers more likely to get wickets if the runs aren't flowing freely from any bowler.