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Thread: Semi final 1: Brazil vs Germany

  1. #16
    Cricket Web Staff Member Burgey's Avatar
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    It's weird how a lot of people expect Brazil to play how they used to in the 70s and 80s despite the game becoming that much more professional and hard edged everywhere else. Let's be honest, if your own side went for all out flair and attack and was consistently beaten, there'd be hell to pay. But for some reason we all want Brazil to keep playing like it's 1970, and when they basically do what every other country does, we seem to say what a shame it is they aren't the Brazil of old.
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    International Debutant Salamuddin's Avatar
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    This is Germany's tournament to lose from here really. They have a squad loaded with talent and the experience of having played at the business end of the big tournaments. If Joachim Low can't win this, he has to step aside for Euro 2016.

    Scolari is a better coach than I think he is given credit for on these forums but he has his work cut out without Neymar and Thiago though. They may be able to produce a fabulous performance to get past Germany but can they win two big games in a row without Neymar. I don't think they can.

    The Dutch have played well so far ; very determined - the senior guys like Kuyt, Van Persie, Sneijder are obviously keen to end their careers with a bang. I didn't think they'd get this far tbh - think they can definitely beat Argentina but Germany are a better outfit.

    I thought Argentina were pretty good against Belgium - they have slowly grown into this tournament. Demichelis has strengthened their defence without question - he's definitely better than Federico Fernandez. A back four of Rojo, Demi, Garay and Zabaleta is actually quite decent - they won't be broken easily by the Dutch.
    The key against the Dutch is gonna be in midfield - Di Maria is out and the Dutch will attempt keep tight rein on Messi. They'll need extra avenues of creativity from someone else ideally.
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  3. #18
    Spanish_Vicente sledger's Avatar
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    It's not that I don't especially rate Scolari, I think he's actually quite a decent (international) manager. I just can't stand the bloke.

    The fact that he's been having a cry about how Neymar was unfairly targetted by Colombia for example just reeks of hypocrisy, given the fact that Fernandinho appeared to have been instructed to just kick James Rodriguez to death in the last match.

    On the wider point about Brazil, I don't really think it's even so much about people wanting to see the Brazil of old, just that they'd like to see a bit of flair. There's no real reason why you can't have this and do a professional job. The problem is Brazil seem to have adopted a "kick everyone" strategy and it's just so ugly to watch.

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    Request Your Custom Title Now! Uppercut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Burgey View Post
    It's weird how a lot of people expect Brazil to play how they used to in the 70s and 80s despite the game becoming that much more professional and hard edged everywhere else. Let's be honest, if your own side went for all out flair and attack and was consistently beaten, there'd be hell to pay. But for some reason we all want Brazil to keep playing like it's 1970, and when they basically do what every other country does, we seem to say what a shame it is they aren't the Brazil of old.
    Spain just spent six straight years dicking all over the idea that you have to play like modern Brazil to win trophies.
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  5. #20
    International Regular Tangles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sledger View Post
    On the wider point about Brazil, I don't really think it's even so much about people wanting to see the Brazil of old, just that they'd like to see a bit of flair. There's no real reason why you can't have this and do a professional job. The problem is Brazil seem to have adopted a "kick everyone" strategy and it's just so ugly to watch.
    This. I don't think we all expect them to play in a way that's not sustainable in the modern game. Or that they don't have the quality for anymore. They could be trying to mix the flair and the defense but they have done less of that than Germany and Holland. That being said they have the right to play how they want. But if this is how they choose to play they can't assume they will still garner neutral support and be peoples 2nd team like old Brazil.

  6. #21
    Eternal Optimist / Cricket Web Staff Member GIMH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uppercut View Post
    Spain just spent six straight years dicking all over the idea that you have to play like modern Brazil to win trophies.
    They spent six straight years dicking over the idea that great teams are fun to watch too tbf. **** them

  7. #22
    Request Your Custom Title Now! Uppercut's Avatar
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    Yeah but in a way that's because they were too good. Never going to be a fun watch when one team can't get a touch of the ball. In their defence, if both teams try to play the Spain way, you almost always get a great game.

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    Eternal Optimist / Cricket Web Staff Member GIMH's Avatar
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    Tbf they were decent to watch at the Euros in 08. Seemed to get duller as the years went by.

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  9. #24
    Request Your Custom Title Now! Uppercut's Avatar
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    Beating Italy 4-0 in 2012 was great fun too. Also had a spectacular demolition of Ireland () in that tournament.

    In general I agree though. It was more fun when teams didn't have a clue how to play against them and just got cut apart. Torres (and to a lesser extent Villa) turning crap was a disaster too.

  10. #25
    Evil Scotsman Furball's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GIMH View Post
    Tbf they were decent to watch at the Euros in 08. Seemed to get duller as the years went by.
    Largely because teams worked out that their best shot was to pack their defence.

  11. #26
    BARNES OUT dontcloseyoureyes's Avatar
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    Man I couldn't think of a worse team to watch than Spain at the last WC. Would rather watch Pulis-era Stoke, at least you could get amusement out of them kicking the **** out of people.
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  12. #27
    Eternal Optimist / Cricket Web Staff Member GIMH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Furball View Post
    Largely because teams worked out that their best shot was to pack their defence.
    Nah they were just dull. It's not an exciting style of football.

    It was like Jacques Kallis. Sure, it worked & you couldn't really fault it technically, but man was it dull.

  13. #28
    Hall of Fame Member social's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Burgey View Post
    It's weird how a lot of people expect Brazil to play how they used to in the 70s and 80s despite the game becoming that much more professional and hard edged everywhere else. Let's be honest, if your own side went for all out flair and attack and was consistently beaten, there'd be hell to pay. But for some reason we all want Brazil to keep playing like it's 1970, and when they basically do what every other country does, we seem to say what a shame it is they aren't the Brazil of old.
    Mate, we tried it without half the talent of Brazil at our disposal, lost every match and have been roundly praised

    Things need to be put into perspective with Brazil - they just need to win and the way they did it will quickly be consigned to the vault

    IIRC the Brazilians played **** football in '94 but won and people don't really go on about it now
    Last edited by social; 08-07-2014 at 02:59 AM.

  14. #29
    International Regular Stapel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Burgey View Post
    It's weird how a lot of people expect Brazil to play how they used to in the 70s and 80s despite the game becoming that much more professional and hard edged everywhere else. Let's be honest, if your own side went for all out flair and attack and was consistently beaten, there'd be hell to pay. But for some reason we all want Brazil to keep playing like it's 1970, and when they basically do what every other country does, we seem to say what a shame it is they aren't the Brazil of old.
    Try to find some footage of the 1974 WC. You'll be amazed about the ridiculous number of really bad Brazilian fouls. The much applauded Dutch team of 1974 weren't exactly a bunchof choir boys either.

    We simply tend to romanticise the past.
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  15. #30
    International Coach wpdavid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stapel View Post
    Try to find some footage of the 1974 WC. You'll be amazed about the ridiculous number of really bad Brazilian fouls. The much applauded Dutch team of 1974 weren't exactly a bunchof choir boys either.

    We simply tend to romanticise the past.
    Yeah but 1974 was something of a one-off for Brazil. I'm not saying they never fouled anyone apart from that tournament, but they'd clearly come determined not to experience a repeat of being kicked out of it as they were in 1966. Plus they weren't nearly as good as they had been in 1970 of course. We were all shocked watching them because it was so out of character. As for Holland, they could look after themselves if necessary, but they could play. In fact, the occasions when they did get stuck in tended to result in them losing their focus and the game, as against Czeckoslavakia in the 1976 EC. That's a mile away from Brazil kicking James Rodriguez all over the park last week because they weren't good enough to win through legitimate means.

    And I don't get the whole argument that the way Brazil played in 1982 wasn't sustainable, therefore everyone's moved on. What wasn't sustainable was having a back four as poor as that side did. Look at the famous Italy match, and two of the three goals were down to village green defending. Even having one defensive midfielder wouldn't have compromised them a huge amount, given the talent at their disposal that year. The reason they haven't played like that since then is they haven't had a bunch of midfielders in the same league as Zico, Socrates, Falcao, Eder and Cerezo. Just a shame that Ronaldo wasn't born 20 years earlier. Or Romario 12 years earlier. Or even the Italian back four being born a few thousand miles south west.

    The trouble that's becoming increasingly clear with this year's WC is that even the best sides are relatively ordinary. Brazil were over-dependent on one player in a way that few good sides have been in the past. Holland and Argentina still are. Barring cock-ups or Messi doing a Maradona, this one is Germany's to lose, and neutrals couldn't really argue against them deserving it. Great though the group games were, I think the tournament is in danger of fizzling out.
    Last edited by wpdavid; 08-07-2014 at 08:34 AM.

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