Now or never for Kiwis

[Salamuddin]

Ok maybe the never is a slight exaggeration but this is easily the best chance NZ have ever had to win a world cup and probably the best chance they'll have until the next time the circus comes down under.


-- playing all games (barring the final) at home
--- a very experienced squad with the Mccullums, Mills, Taylor, Elliot, Vettori and Ronchi
-- Good all around strength in the squad
-- Weak opposition - The subcontinental sides all look weak, England are meh (sorry Corryn), WIndies are meh meh. South Africa have clear weaknesses.
The Aussies are the only realistic rivals.

NZ should be bitterly disappointed if they don't at least make the final. And if not facing OZ in the final, they should be bitterly disappointed if they don't win it.


2019 will be tough - while English conditions will be to their liking, I doubt their squad will be as strong as this one and 2023 is on the subcontinent - will always be a massive challenge for the Kiwis to win there.

 

[GGG]

Yes it is the best chance we have have. Not sure why you think we won't be as strong next world cup, all our current bowlers besides Mills and Vettori will be either in their mid 20's or early 30's, Taylor should still be there, Williamson will be in his prime, Anderson and Neesham will be gun allrounders by then and Ryder will become a born again and have a second coming.

 

[Howsie]

Yeah. New Zealand is obvs a good chance here, and probably our best but this definately isn't a last chance saloon. Even with all the success we've seen over the past two or so years it's been done with a really young core base. I mean the test XI at the basin last month had a average age of 26, with only Taylor at 30 and McCullum 33 being over 30.

 

[hendrix]

I think South Africa are just as tough as Australia tbh. Two absolute ATG ODI players in Amla and AB. Duminy adds nice balance. Steyn and Morkel is a good attack and Tahir can be tough in ODIs.

 

[Zinzan]

I think South Africa are just as tough as Australia tbh. Two absolute ATG ODI players in Amla and AB. Duminy adds nice balance. Steyn and Morkel is a good attack and Tahir can be tough in ODIs.

On paper, yes. But as a gelling unit, I do put Australia slightly ahead of them, especially at home.

 

[Prince EWS]

2019 will be tough - while English conditions will be to their liking, I doubt their squad will be as strong as this one

Yeah like others I doubt this is the case. I know we're a looong way off and a lot of different things can happen, but I think they're a red hot chance in 2019 as well with the younger players they've got coming through. Many of them are already in this side.

 

[SuperMurali]

If the Kiwis don't win it this time, will the lack of success become a psychological hurdle? 10 previous tournaments and the best we've had are a few semi final losses. A bit like the Poms with the soccer since '66.

 

[hendrix]

If the Kiwis don't win it this time, will the lack of success become a psychological hurdle? 10 previous tournaments and the best we've had are a few semi final losses. A bit like the Poms with the soccer since '66.

Nah it wouldn't really be a choke because this would be the first time we've genuinely be considered contenders and even then we're about 3rd on most people's list.

 

[Hurricane]

I also think its now or never.

In some ways with the emergence of Elliot doing a serviceable job at 5 we havn't lost too much with Ryder. I think the big thing for our chances will be injuries as we have no batting depth.

I also predict we won't have Ross for 2019 and he is irreplaceable

 

[GGG]

Why don't you think Taylor will be there? He will only be 34.

 

[SteveNZ]

Yeah, I feel like Cane is right. 4 years is a long time for a guy who has fallen in and out of love of the game like Ross has in the last couple of years. An extended form slump might be enough to make him call it a day, especially with a young family.

I think we'll be a red-hot chance in 2019, remember how swing dominated the 1999 World Cup (Warne apart). We'll have Southee, Boult, Henry, Milne and hopefully a few run-getters around Kane at his peak.

But in saying that, it's still a massive opportunity this time around. We're clear third favourite and there's been a few third favourites win big tournaments when the ones above them don't get it right.

 

[Flem274*]

We'll still be good in 2019. Might even be better. Our team has a lot of young players.

 

[Salamuddin]

Yeah like others I doubt this is the case. I know we're a looong way off and a lot of different things can happen, but I think they're a red hot chance in 2019 as well with the younger players they've got coming through. Many of them are already in this side.

Brendon Mccullum probably won't be round in 2019 or will be past his peak.
Taylor's at his best now - doubt very much if he'll be better in 2019 if he's there at all.
Vettori, Nathan Mccullum, Kyle Mills and Ronchi are probably not going to make it.

NZl generally don't have the same player depth as other countries - hence its not unreasonable to suggest that building a squad as good as this one is unlikely.
Also, suspect that some of the sides who are not quite as strong in this tournament maybe a lot better in 2019 - England, India and hopefully WIndies and Pakistan.
I don't think NZ are without a chance in 2019 - like I said the conditions will suit them in England and they'll still have a decent pace attack. I just don't don't think their all round strength and experience will be as good and experience matters a LOT in winning big tournaments.

They really need to make this chance count.

 

[Howsie]

Taylor will be 34 in 2019, are you seriously telling me you'd be shocked if he was still 'a close to World class batsman' at that age? I'll give you McCullum even though I reckon he's a severly overrated ODI batsman, and Ronchi too. But Vettori, Nathan McCullum and Kyle Mills (who shouldn't even be in this World Cup squad) are just bit part players at this stage and quite frankly don't really make a difference IMO.

The core of this team, Guptill 28, Williamson, 24, Anderson 24, Milne, 22, Southee 26, Boult 25 will all be there in 2019 and hopefully all well into their prime, along with Neesham and Henry who were unlucky to miss out this time.

 

[Jono]

Its ****ing hard to win a World Cup. If NZ don't win it this time, they shouldn't have any psychological hurdle, unless the absolutely drop their bundle. If they're beaten by a rampaging SA or Aust (or even an India or SL who play damn well), then ah well, onto the next WC.

 

[Prince EWS]

Brendon Mccullum probably won't be round in 2019 or will be past his peak.
Taylor's at his best now - doubt very much if he'll be better in 2019 if he's there at all.
Vettori, Nathan Mccullum, Kyle Mills and Ronchi are probably not going to make it.

NZl generally don't have the same player depth as other countries - hence its not unreasonable to suggest that building a squad as good as this one is unlikely.
Also, suspect that some of the sides who are not quite as strong in this tournament maybe a lot better in 2019 - England, India and hopefully WIndies and Pakistan.
I don't think NZ are without a chance in 2019 - like I said the conditions will suit them in England and they'll still have a decent pace attack. I just don't don't think their all round strength and experience will be as good and experience matters a LOT in winning big tournaments.

They really need to make this chance count.

Yeah, it's true that some of their players won't be around next time. It's also true that Milne, Boult, Williamson, Latham, Southee and Anderson will probably be better then than they are now though, and I also think Henry, Neesham and Santner -- who didn't make this World Cup -- will be better than Mills, Elliott and Nathan McCullum (who they'll replace) are now by then too.

That's before we take into account the possibility of players we either don't think will still be around or who haven't been sighted internationally making a charge. Pretty much every side in this World Cup has at least one player who would've fit that category last World Cup.

New Zealand to mine are looking better for 2019 than any other side. That doesn't mean they'll be favourites by then as a lot can change and, as you said, they have a smaller player pool than most other countries, but I certainly don't think this is a case of 'now or never'. It just strikes me as an overly negative way to view a good side.

 

[hendrix]

NZl generally don't have the same player depth as other countries - hence its not unreasonable to suggest that building a squad as good as this one is unlikely.
Also, suspect that some of the sides who are not quite as strong in this tournament maybe a lot better in 2019 - England, India and hopefully WIndies and Pakistan.
I don't think NZ are without a chance in 2019 - like I said the conditions will suit them in England and they'll still have a decent pace attack. I just don't don't think their all round strength and experience will be as good and experience matters a LOT in winning big tournaments.

"Generally" is correct but in this case it's incorrect.



Look at the ages of some key players:
Williamson (24)
Milne (22)
Anderson (23)
Southee (26)
Boult (25)
McCleneghan (28)
Guptill (28)

Good, potentially world class players coming through:
Tom Latham (MVP)
Matt Henry
James Neesham
Doug Bracewell
Ish Sodhi
Mitch Santner

Some journeymen who could fill a role in the 2019 WC:
BJ Watling (29), wicketkeeper
Colin Munro (27) (averages 47 in first class cricket at a strike rate of 90) - fills potential middle order slot.
Anton Devcich (29) - a hack, but could be useful
George Worker - will seduce Anushka Sharma so that Kohli packs a sad.

 

[Grasshopper]

Yeah, nah...we'll get knocked out in a semi-final again, so no point in getting our hopes up. I don't think we're nearly as good as a lot of people rate us, and it wouldn't surprise me at all if SL dick us in the opener.

South Africa will beat Aus in the final to finally shed their chokers tag.

 

[Flem274*]

NZl generally don't have the same player depth as other countries - hence its not unreasonable to suggest that building a squad as good as this one is unlikely.

So your argument is based on a stereotype? Ftr New Zealand right now have more depth in fast bowling than most countries. Matt Henry would walk into most World Cup squads.

Your opinion is nothing new. New Zealand has a long history of underachievement (often rewritten as overachievement because small population) so global viewers are probably waiting for what they see as the inevitable fall back to direness. It will probably happen because NZC dropping the ball after lucking on a good run is the natural order of life, but it won't be 2019. The current team is simply too young for New Zealand to revert to type barring catastrophe, which is always a chance.

 

[Scaly piscine]

Good, potentially world class players coming through:
Tom Latham (MVP)
Matt Henry
James Neesham
Doug Bracewell
Ish Sodhi
Mitch Santner

So to clarify your scale of hyperbole, we have players who are in and out of a NZ side as good, first team regulars are super, key players (ie most of the team apparently) are all-time greats, with say Williamson and Vettori as epic legends and defenders of the universe.