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Younis Khan vs Rahul Dravid

marc71178

Eyes not spreadsheets
You can't use activity in this aspect. Both have played a lot of tests but it's not Khans fault that there was a time when Pakistan were playing so few test matches.
Yet the flipside to that is that by not having as many games, Khan could always maintain a level of freshness which the grind of playing a lot of matches didn't allow Dravid, allowing him to be much nearer 100% ready whenever his team had a Test, something which is often overlooked.
 

Furball

Evil Scotsman
Forgive me if I'm wrong on this one but up until Sehwag and Gambhir got gud in around about 2008/09, wasn't Dravid constantly playing behind at least one joke opener in just about every Test he played for about 10 years?
 

Howe_zat

Audio File
Forgive me if I'm wrong on this one but up until Sehwag and Gambhir got gud in around about 2008/09, wasn't Dravid constantly playing behind at least one joke opener in just about every Test he played for about 10 years?

1996-2002 (spuds) average 34 for 1st wicket. Dravid averaged 52

2002-2008 (sehwag+spuds) average 44 for 1st wicket. Dravid averaged 52

2008-2012 (sehwag+gambhir) average 52 for 1st wicket. Dravid averaged 47

Rahul Dravid don't give a ****
 

viriya

International Captain
Forgive me if I'm wrong on this one but up until Sehwag and Gambhir got gud in around about 2008/09, wasn't Dravid constantly playing behind at least one joke opener in just about every Test he played for about 10 years?
Play after joke openers was what sanga did his whole career.. but I digress.
 

listento_me

U19 Captain
Nice to know that Yousuf, Inzy, Misbah have not been playing for Pakistan during Younis' career.
Yousuf retired in 2010, Inzy in 2007. Khan has played almost half his career without those guys. Misbah is certainly good but not great.

You're acting like Younis came in with a properly built platform but in most cases he came in having to rebuild. He also missed considerable chunks of cricket when Inzy and Yousuf were around.

Like I said, it's not like batting with Tendulkar, Ganguly, VVS, Sehwag for almost your whole career.

If you want to counter arguments, you will have to learn to make better ones.
 

listento_me

U19 Captain
1996-2002 (spuds) average 34 for 1st wicket. Dravid averaged 52

2002-2008 (sehwag+spuds) average 44 for 1st wicket. Dravid averaged 52

2008-2012 (sehwag+gambhir) average 52 for 1st wicket. Dravid averaged 47

Rahul Dravid don't give a ****
Oh, so Dravid came in at 3 and batted on his own....or he batted alongside the likes of Tendulkar and VVS?

Yet the flipside to that is that by not having as many games, Khan could always maintain a level of freshness which the grind of playing a lot of matches didn't allow Dravid, allowing him to be much nearer 100% ready whenever his team had a Test, something which is often overlooked.
I don't understand what you're trying to say here. Is your argument for Dravid that he played more matches?
 

Coronis

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Yet the flipside to that is that by not having as many games, Khan could always maintain a level of freshness which the grind of playing a lot of matches didn't allow Dravid, allowing him to be much nearer 100% ready whenever his team had a Test, something which is often overlooked.
Which also makes it harder to continue with a purple patch, since you won't play as many matches during that peak.

Dravid > Younis. This discussion is mute.
Oh ok good, /thread.
 

zaremba

Cricketer Of The Year
Dravid > Younis. This discussion is mute.
Mute or moot?

Anyhow I don't care who wins this contest. All that matters to me is that these are two of my favourite batsmen of all time. They seem to me very different beasts: I see YK as the cavalier and RD as the defender (please no-one try to disprove that with stats because I simply won't read them). But both are/were exponents of the sort of cricket I like to see played, with skill and dignity and a smile.
 

marc71178

Eyes not spreadsheets
I don't understand what you're trying to say here. Is your argument for Dravid that he played more matches?
Not so much because of number of matches but the intensity of games. Not having a break to iron out kinks in a player's technique or just getting some down time to mentally refresh is something that I often feel is overlooked when looking at batsmen.

For example, the 5 Tests coming up for India vs England. If a key batsman for one of the teams hits a slump then he could well struggle all series because he just doesn't have the time to take a break, work things out and come back.

Where a batsman has only had a lot of 2 or 3 Test series with big breaks between them, he is in a much better place to be at his best when he plays Tests.
 

Coronis

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
For example, the 5 Tests coming up for India vs England. If a key batsman for one of the teams hits a purple patch then he could well dominate all series because he just doesn't have the time to take a break, work things out and come back down to earth.
Food for thought.
 

Xuhaib

International Coach
Agreed. Plus ,we can not forget that Khan had to work wonders with a very average batting line up for a long time. Dravid spent the largest chunk of his career playing wih the likes of Ganguly, Tendulkar, VVS and even Sehwag. Although they weren't all great, they were/are better than the likes of Azhar Ali, Asad Shafiq, Salman Butt, Taufeeq Umar etc etc etc.



Look, 4th innings matter, especially when you directly correlate those runs to test matches won.

I get your point thought but it still doesn't change this analysis. Khan and Dravid are damn close, it's like trying to tell who had a better boxing career, Ali or Robinson. So we have to start looking at the minutiae, one of those in big hundreds, triples and ofc, the famed 4th innings.

Khan edges it slightly for me for those reasons...in tests. I have to reiterate the latter.
The worst part of this post is lumping Azhar & Asad together with Butt and taufeeq .Azhar & Asad if they continue their current career path they will retire as solid world class batsmen and they are much better then hacks like Farhat, Butt, Faisal or Hafeez.
 

harsh.ag

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Where a batsman has only had a lot of 2 or 3 Test series with big breaks between them, he is in a much better place to be at his best when he plays Tests.
Also the reason why India will only be playing 2 tests series in England from now on #1-0in2014
 

marc71178

Eyes not spreadsheets
Food for thought.
What, completely changing my post when in effect the converse is not as likely to be true is food for thought?

Coaches (and the actual bowlers) can watch the batsmen and get their bowlers to change plans over a series without needing to spend time honing technique etc.

Batsmen in a slump don't have that opportunity.
 

watson

Banned
Mute or moot?

Anyhow I don't care who wins this contest. All that matters to me is that these are two of my favourite batsmen of all time. They seem to me very different beasts: I see YK as the cavalier and RD as the defender (please no-one try to disprove that with stats because I simply won't read them). But both are/were exponents of the sort of cricket I like to see played, with skill and dignity and a smile.
Every team needs the odd defender, but realistically we watch cricket to watch the cavaliers. So all things being equal a cavalier should trump a defender because without them there would be no game of cricket in the first place.
 

listento_me

U19 Captain
Mute or moot?

Anyhow I don't care who wins this contest. All that matters to me is that these are two of my favourite batsmen of all time. They seem to me very different beasts: I see YK as the cavalier and RD as the defender (please no-one try to disprove that with stats because I simply won't read them). But both are/were exponents of the sort of cricket I like to see played, with skill and dignity and a smile.
I'll always put Khan>Dravid in purely test cricket BUT I agree with the sentiment here. Both guys played a different style of the game and succeeded. Both largely kept their dignity and both were/are sporting examples on the field.

Oh and they are both true all time greats so there's that.
 

listento_me

U19 Captain
The worst part of this post is lumping Azhar & Asad together with Butt and taufeeq .Azhar & Asad if they continue their current career path they will retire as solid world class batsmen and they are much better then hacks like Farhat, Butt, Faisal or Hafeez.
That may be true but neither of those guys are truly world class just yet, although Asad is coming along very nicely and Azhar is improving too. The fact is, none of them were truly great like Tendulkar or on the cusp of greatness like VVS or Ganguly. So my point still stands. If you want to keep on arguing that Pakistan have had a better batting line up and KHan hadn't had to bat with the so called "hacks" you yourself labeled, than do so but I doubt I'll bother readin it.

Every team needs the odd defender, but realistically we watch cricket to watch the cavaliers. So all things being equal a cavalier should trump a defender because without them there would be no game of cricket in the first place.
I dunno...I enjoy watching Cook more than I do Stokes. Then again I guess a truly world class cavalier, say KP, will probably be a great batsman for the viewer than Cook.

Maybe you're right lol I just argued myself out of it.
 

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