Which team currently has the best fast bowling attack?

[Prince EWS]

Don’t really agree with those rankings or Cribbs call. India at home have one of the best bowling attacks around and they’re pretty decent away as well. Reckon Bangers at home is far better than Zimbabwe too, enough to outweigh Zimbabwe being slightly better away than Bangers. SL at home also significantly better than WI, solely due to Herath.

I reckon Bangers would wreck WI at home too.

Yeah what Morgie said. If we're including spinners then everything you said becomes true, so I suspect you may be.

 

[Black_Warrior]

Don’t really agree with those rankings or Cribbs call. India at home have one of the best bowling attacks around and they’re pretty decent away as well. Reckon Bangers at home is far better than Zimbabwe too, enough to outweigh Zimbabwe being slightly better away than Bangers. SL at home also significantly better than WI, solely due to Herath.

I reckon Bangers would wreck WI at home too.

We're specifically talking about pace attacks. Bangers at home open with Mehedi and Shakib

We're basically talking about Subhashish, Kamrul and Mustafiz here.

 

[Slifer]

Philander - Hazelwood
Rabada - Starc
Ngidi - Cummins

Pretty neck and neck. Only way South Africa go ahead is if Steyn ever comes back.

No they are not. If the above is the comparison you're using, then Philander > Hazelwood, Rabada> Starc, Ngidi </= Cummins but of course still early esp for Ngidi. Plus Rsa have Morkel and an atg Steyn etc as reserves.

 

[GRAB]

RSA, Aus, NZ, Ind, Eng IMO.

 

[Black_Warrior]

I was basically talking about a post Morkel period as he is retiring in 2 tests time. But yeah I don't necessarily disagree with you on those assessments. But there's still not a lot of gulf between Philander/Hazelwood and Starc/Rabada so over the long term, I would expect this to be game of revolving doors over the next 18-24 months.

 

[Bolo]

No they are not. If the above is the comparison you're using, then Philander > Hazelwood, Rabada> Starc, Ngidi </= Cummins but of course still early esp for Ngidi. Plus Rsa have Morkel and an atg Steyn etc as reserves.

Way too early to make any call at all on Ngidi vs Cummins, and comparison is basically meaningless, but if you are going to make a call, ngidi <= Cummins is a brave one. Cummins averages 50% more with the ball, lower strike rate, lower wpm, and has worse first class stats.

On the eye test, 150kmph Cummins looked better to me. The new version has more control than Ngidi but is less threatening.

Cummins is quality, but we haven't seen much from ngidi to suggest he's possibly worse.

 

[Dendarii]

How does the next tier of bowlers after Philander/Rabada/Ngidi and Starc/Hazlewood/Cummins compare? Assuming no Steyn, for South Africa it's currently Olivier and Morris - how do they stack up against Australia's backup?

 

[Black_Warrior]

Jackson Bird and Pattinson maybe?

 

[Daemon]

Don’t really agree with those rankings or Cribbs call. India at home have one of the best bowling attacks around and they’re pretty decent away as well. Reckon Bangers at home is far better than Zimbabwe too, enough to outweigh Zimbabwe being slightly better away than Bangers. SL at home also significantly better than WI, solely due to Herath.

I reckon Bangers would wreck WI at home too.

nice

 

[Daemon]

Actually if you consider both home/away which considerably lowers England's rating, I would say India and England are pretty much on par now with New Zealand ahead by a whisker.

South Africa in a post Morkel/Steyn era might not be that far ahead of Australia.

Hmm I think the Indian quicks wouldn't have done much better than the English ones in a 5 test series in Australia. We were good in SA but so were England. At home our quicks are good for about 5 overs while Anderson is unstoppable at home.

A combined attack would probably be Anderson, Bhuvi, Broad/Shami with Woakes potentially in as a bowling AR.

(this is an invitation for someone to bump the would stuart broad make India's XI thread and get GIMH/Furball posting)

 

[morgieb]

Hmm I think the Indian quicks wouldn't have done much better than the English ones in a 5 test series in Australia. We were good in SA but so were England. At home our quicks are good for about 5 overs while Anderson is unstoppable at home.

A combined attack would probably be Anderson, Bhuvi, Broad/Shami with Woakes potentially in as a bowling AR.

(this is an invitation for someone to bump the would stuart broad make India's XI thread and get GIMH/Furball posting)

TBF I think England's bowling attack is worse now than what it is today.

 

[hendrix]

Yea we've always been able to get guys who bowl really quick. I think we're just taking better care of the fast bowlers, right from youth level to the international scene. Better coaching, S&C, nutrition, etc. Credit probably goes to the BCCI and places like the MRF Pace Foundation

The latter more than the former I'd guess, but I think more than either of them it's more likely to be demographic changes like a growing middle class with more access and interest in athletic endeavours. I realise that players who made it to the national team have usually been middle class anyway, but I'm talking about the range of athletic pursuits now available to the middle class in the developing world.

e.g.
- the concept of fitness as a lifestyle
- hiking/tramping as a leisure activity, rather than a means to an ends
- niche sport access e.g. rock climbing walls, rowing, sailing, kayaking as opposed to limitations to major sports

I could be wrong, but in my view these things have changed markedly for the middle class across the developing world in the last 10 or so years.

 

[the big bambino]

Philander - Hazelwood
Rabada - Starc
Ngidi - Cummins

Pretty neck and neck. Only way South Africa go ahead is if Steyn ever comes back.

Then put in Pattinson and they're both pretty even imo.

 

[cnerd123]

The latter more than the former I'd guess, but I think more than either of them it's more likely to be demographic changes like a growing middle class with more access and interest in athletic endeavours. I realise that players who made it to the national team have usually been middle class anyway, but I'm talking about the range of athletic pursuits now available to the middle class in the developing world.

e.g.
- the concept of fitness as a lifestyle
- hiking/tramping as a leisure activity, rather than a means to an ends
- niche sport access e.g. rock climbing walls, rowing, sailing, kayaking as opposed to limitations to major sports

I could be wrong, but in my view these things have changed markedly for the middle class across the developing world in the last 10 or so years.

Yadav played cricket against his family's will, he was a laborer otherwise.

Bumrah came up through youth cricket development programs

Bhuvi only started bowling in the 140s after he got selected by India

From the recent U-19 team, Kamlesh Nagarkoti has been coached and groomed since he was a kid, and while I can't find much on Mavi it seems he's been groomed since a youngster as well.

I don't think it has anything to do with the average Indian being fitter/healthier tbh - I think we're just developing fast bowlers better.

 

[the big bambino]

Yeah what Morgie said. If we're including spinners then everything you said becomes true, so I suspect you may be.

I always look to you to set standards and I'm pleased to see its possible to deal politely with someone who strays from a thread topic inadvertently or by diversion. I'll keep this wonderful example in mind. Thank you again.

 

[Daemon]

Yadav played cricket against his family's will, he was a laborer otherwise.

Bumrah came up through youth cricket development programs

Bhuvi only started bowling in the 140s after he got selected by India

From the recent U-19 team, Kamlesh Nagarkoti has been coached and groomed since he was a kid, and while I can't find much on Mavi it seems he's been groomed since a youngster as well.

I don't think it has anything to do with the average Indian being fitter/healthier tbh - I think we're just developing fast bowlers better.

Fun fact about nostrils, dude first bowled with a leather ball when he was 20 years old. Insane to think how far he's come.

 

[Burgey]

Don’t really agree with those rankings or Cribbs call. India at home have one of the best bowling attacks around and they’re pretty decent away as well. Reckon Bangers at home is far better than Zimbabwe too, enough to outweigh Zimbabwe being slightly better away than Bangers. SL at home also significantly better than WI, solely due to Herath.

I reckon Bangers would wreck WI at home too.

How long have you been following Cricket mate? Never talk up India’s seam attack away from home. It’s a recipe for a shambles.

 

[Burgey]

Way too early to make any call at all on Ngidi vs Cummins, and comparison is basically meaningless, but if you are going to make a call, ngidi <= Cummins is a brave one. Cummins averages 50% more with the ball, lower strike rate, lower wpm, and has worse first class stats.

On the eye test, 150kmph Cummins looked better to me. The new version has more control than Ngidi but is less threatening.

Cummins is quality, but we haven't seen much from ngidi to suggest he's possibly worse.

Or better.

Cummins’ name has been around for a while but he’s hardly played much more meaningful cricket than Ngidi.

 

[Burgey]

Hendrix, why would anyone go for a hike for enjoyment? Terrible idea. That’s why they invented the golf cart ffs.

 

[the big bambino]

Hard to get a read on Ngidi’s speeds. I saw he bowled a 151k ball v India. Anyone know what his range is generally? Guessing 135-145.