Spark
Global Moderator
Wow. I'm somewhat astonished.
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Where Next For Kevin Pietersen?
- Thread starter Jarquis
- Start date
GuyFromLancs
State Vice-Captain
Pietersen has more glaring weaknesses than Clarke, but is still a superior batsman. And our victory in 05 leans partly on his 158 at the Oval.
Matt79
Hall of Fame Member
Yeah, I'm not saying that GFLs is a loon or anythingWould say that Pietersen definitely well in front of Clarke in 05, but that's because Clarke wasn't really up to it (this was before he was dropped). And Pietersen basically didn't play in 09.
Overall though I don't see too much wrong with that post, apart from the all-time bit (), and the "prolonged slump" bit (you want to see a prolonged slump? Hussey through the Aus 08-09 season right up until the Oval...). Otherwise it's mostly a case of personal preference. He's English, he prefers Pietersen, I'm Australian, I prefer Clarke
, but I do think calling some of the decks that have been produced in the UK in the period KP's been playing as seaming is stretching it.
pasag
RTDAS
Would have helped if all the threads weren't needlessly merged as there was the one I started discussing this exact issue, tbh.Let's try and keep this on topic guys, there's a thread already for discussion about Clarke. Am happy to move posts from here to there if people want to keep up this discussion, but otherwise let's try keep to KP
But yeah, back to KP, he has probably five years left, he needs one or two of those to be ave 70+ plus to make the jump to "realising his potential". Not just a few great innings here or there but a season or two of dominance where people are forced to reevaluate where he stands.
Spark
Global Moderator
A very major partly, yes. If Pietersen's fully fit and firing by December, then we shall have some fun. Presumably Clarke will still be in good touch (he has the kind of technique that makes you think he won't really ever get out of touch). Should be good.
We'll still win 5-0 though
GuyFromLancs
State Vice-Captain
It doesn't surprise me at all that you're astonished. As much as I love cricket and discussing it there exists a culture within our fan base that says "old = best". Just because KP doesn't have a handle-bar moustache and a Lord for a father doesn't mean that he and his record can't compare favourably with those from yesteryear.
Streetwise
Banned
You would expect the superior batsman to have a higher average.
Spark
Global Moderator
It's just that it's a extraordinarily early call to say he's the best after basically 4 years. He had an outstanding four years, true, but it's only FOUR YEARS. Besides (and this goes to both players) - he hasn't reached his peak yet. Watch him then and then call him a great.
Well TBH the averages are so close that seperation isn't possible. A few good (or bad) innings could easily reverse that.
Although whilst Pietersen's has basically gone sideways, down a little, Clarke's has gone upwards. But even so that's more of a testament of Pietersen's astonishing start and Clarke's recent superb form than any actual inherent difference between the two.
Both are real good players, let's make that clear.
Personal preference I guess...I dunno but I consider Clarke to be much better to watch than Pietersen.
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GuyFromLancs
State Vice-Captain
Isn't this baiting?A very major partly, yes. If Pietersen's fully fit and firing by December, then we shall have some fun. Presumably Clarke will still be in good touch (he has the kind of technique that makes you think he won't really ever get out of touch). Should be good.
We'll still win 5-0 though
pasag
RTDAS
Seaming English decks is an utter myth.
a) Most decks in England (used for Tests over the past few years) are as flat as pancakes with limited assistance
b) Wrt to swing, most opposition bowlers have never been able to exploit English conditions anyways. See Kallis outbowling Steyn there etc. I recall an innings from Zaheer, one from OBrien, one from Sammy but those are really exceptions to the rule, sadly.
a) Most decks in England (used for Tests over the past few years) are as flat as pancakes with limited assistance
b) Wrt to swing, most opposition bowlers have never been able to exploit English conditions anyways. See Kallis outbowling Steyn there etc. I recall an innings from Zaheer, one from OBrien, one from Sammy but those are really exceptions to the rule, sadly.
GuyFromLancs
State Vice-Captain
No. And I am shocked any real cricket fan writes this. You must consider TT Samaraweera to be better than Viv Richards
Spark
Global Moderator
Never too early to startIsn't this baiting?
It's gonna be great, though. Really looking forward to it.
Well it's a little better than that. If you're comparing two players who are playing in exactly the same timeframe (to an almost uncanny degree) then averages are a reasonable comparison - to a point. A difference of 2 points though, can't really draw too much from that.No. And I am shocked any real cricket fan writes this. You must consider TT Samaraweera to be better than Viv Richards
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Streetwise
Banned
I had no idea that Viv and Samaraweera played their cricket in the same era, comparing two cricketers that played their cricket at the same time against two cricketers who played in different eras is not what I have done.No. And I am shocked any real cricket fan writes this. You must consider TT Samaraweera to be better than Viv Richards
GuyFromLancs
State Vice-Captain
Clarke was surperb in the 09 Ashes. But before that I don't recall him having the same kind of impact in games as KP, who for the first 3 years of his career was like two batsman for us. I hope and believe that he can find that form again.Never too early to start
It's gonna be great, though. Really looking forward to it.
Well it's a little better than that. If you're comparing two players who are playing in exactly the same timeframe (to an almost uncanny degree) then averages are a reasonable comparison - to a point. A difference of 2 points though, can't really draw too much from that.
GuyFromLancs
State Vice-Captain
If you want to swear by averages to the zenith then be my guest. I doubt most people will indulge you in your "arguments" if you do though.
Streetwise
Banned
At no time did I claim that averages were the zenith of anything, the only claim here is yours that averages gives you absolutely no indication of a batsmans ability.
Spark
Global Moderator
Well before that he played in a series where everyone fired - unless you score a 58-ball hundred, very hard to stand out there.
And before that, in 05... let me point out something here. Clarke's average is 51. If you take out ALL his innings before he was dropped though (including the 151* and the 141) he averages 60. So that shows A. that he wasn't really up to it before he was dropped and B. He's been pretty good ever since.
But yeah you're correct. KP was astonishing, Clarke was average. Now KP is merely very good, and Clarke is up to very good.
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GuyFromLancs
State Vice-Captain
I never claimed that at all. I just gave your peurile "why doesn't he have a better average" comment the treatment it deserved.
Streetwise
Banned
But if we go by you theory then Mark Waugh is a much better batsmen that Pietersen because Waugh looked a very much better batsman.