What is your take on pitch doctoring?

[TheJediBrah]

Basically that there is already have a natural advantage in the pitches without needing to do work on them, and it's different from spin/seam. There's a reason touring players do highlight the bounce as something they rarely face in other countries.

No I don't think so. That's no more a natural advantage than Australia going to other places that have lower bounce is an advantage for the home team

 

[Son Of Coco]

Do you believe that Australia doesn't ever engage in this practice?

TJB got in first, and I agree with what he said.

 

[Son Of Coco]

No I don't think so. That's no more a natural advantage than Australia going to other places that have lower bounce is an advantage for the home team

Or naturally more spin or seam movement for that matter.

 

[Shady Slim]

perth in the summer against new zealand and melbourne in the second most recent ashes down here strike me as two examples of pitches so wretched they were only explicable by deliberate choice

 

[Nintendo]

perth in the summer against new zealand and melbourne in the second most recent ashes down here strike me as two examples of pitches so wretched they were only explicable by deliberate choice

The gabba deck we served up for the 1st SA test last summer was pretty putrid, tbf.

 

[shortpitched713]

As is your admission your team desperately needs outside help when playing at home to compete.

Nah, not really. Spark's opinion here is correct. As long as the pitches produce results which don't completely skew the balance between bat and ball, it doesn't matter if they, for example turn and offer no seam assistance to fast bowlers. That's within the acceptable latitude offered to home pitch curators to support their side, and cannot be policed due to it's inherent subjectivity. "Traditional balance" between seam and spin is a subjective, indeterminate and probably colonialist complaint. Cry harder.

Having Tests pitches that can barely support 3 days or guarantee draws, on the other hand, is unacceptable and should be punished.

 

[Xix2565]

No I don't think so. That's no more a natural advantage than Australia going to other places that have lower bounce is an advantage for the home team

I mean one is a lot easier to play than the other, ffs. Especially when you take into account the types bowling that have succeeded in Australia compared to other places.

The point is that it's a natural advantage Australia have that's as 'unfair' as sideways movement in other places. Yet it isn't really seen as something worth raising a fuss over compared to them.

 

[Son Of Coco]

I mean one is a lot easier to play than the other, ffs. Especially when you take into account the types bowling that have succeeded in Australia compared to other places.

The point is that it's a natural advantage Australia have that's as 'unfair' as sideways movement in other places. Yet it isn't really seen as something worth raising a fuss over compared to them.

What you are talking about isn't pitch doctoring though, neither in Australia nor overseas.

 

[Xix2565]

What you are talking about isn't pitch doctoring though, neither in Australia nor overseas.

It doesn't have to be to have the same effect though, of providing an unnatural advantage to the home side. Which is ultimately what people complain about with pitch 'doctoring', apart from intentions (which involves mind reading and selective ignorance of history).

 

[Coronis]

It doesn't have to be to have the same effect though, of providing an unnatural advantage to the home side. Which is ultimately what people complain about with pitch 'doctoring', apart from intentions (which involves mind reading and selective ignorance of history).

How is it an unnatural advantage?

 

[TheJediBrah]

I mean one is a lot easier to play than the other, ffs. Especially when you take into account the types bowling that have succeeded in Australia compared to other places.

The point is that it's a natural advantage Australia have that's as 'unfair' as sideways movement in other places. Yet it isn't really seen as something worth raising a fuss over compared to them.

Australian pitches bouncing more is not a natural advantage for Australia any more than the ball bouncing less is a natural advantage for other teams whenever Australia tours there. One is not "a lot easier to play than the other", the reason it's an advantage is the players grow up getting used to a certain style of pitches and the touring team doesn't.

Literally every country has a natural advantage in this regard, in that they have grown up used to their home conditions. Australian pitches having a bit more bounce is not a special case, which is what it sounds like you are trying to say unless I'm misunderstanding?

 

[Blenkinsop]

Why do Aussie pitches bounce more? Elastic grass?

 

[Xix2565]

How is it an unnatural advantage?

It's not a common feature of pitches across the world? So it's unnatural in that sense, or abnormal if you prefer a different word.

Australian pitches bouncing more is not a natural advantage for Australia any more than the ball bouncing less is a natural advantage for other teams whenever Australia tours there. One is not "a lot easier to play than the other", the reason it's an advantage is the players grow up getting used to a certain style of pitches and the touring team doesn't.

Literally every country has a natural advantage in this regard, in that they have grown up used to their home conditions. Australian pitches having a bit more bounce is not a special case, which is what it sounds like you are trying to say unless I'm misunderstanding?

It absolutely is, to pretend otherwise is basically being a flat earther lol. It's a lot easier to make the adjustment towards pitches with lower bounce than the other way round, because it's a lot easier to bat when the ball isn't always bouncing more than what most people expect it to across the world. Just like how it's easier to bat on flat wickets vs seaming/spinning wickets. To pretend Australia is similarly disadvantaged with regards to bounce when travelling is weird, when that's never been the main issue with troubles overseas.

 

[TheJediBrah]

It's not a common feature of pitches across the world? So it's unnatural in that sense, or abnormal if you prefer a different word.

It absolutely is, to pretend otherwise is basically being a flat earther lol. It's a lot easier to make the adjustment towards pitches with lower bounce than the other way round, because it's a lot easier to bat when the ball isn't always bouncing more than what most people expect it to across the world. Just like how it's easier to bat on flat wickets vs seaming/spinning wickets. To pretend Australia is similarly disadvantaged with regards to bounce when travelling is weird, when that's never been the main issue with troubles overseas.

I've been trying to give you the benefit of the doubt but not sure that's possible anymore. You couldn't be more wrong and this is one of the dumbest takes I've seen in a long time.

If you really think it's significantly harder for overseas batsman to adjust to Australian conditions than vice versa, you're basically the Indian version of casual Aussie fans who think every standard Indian pitch that turns is cheating

 

[Xix2565]

I don't know, your denial is incredibly dumb as well.

 

[ataraxia]

I don't know, your denial is incredibly dumb as well.

Hear hear, the mad hyperbolist has faltered.

 

[Xix2565]

I think if you believe somehow that the extra bounce is not a big advantage you're basically incapable of understanding cricket.

Is it cheating to have such advantages about how the ball behaves on pitches? For me it's part of the game with playing around the world, but you can't just call out one of them as 'cheating' or whatever and then pretend like the other advantages are totally fine, regardless of how they came about. Just suck it up and watch (or play).

 

[TheJediBrah]

I think if you believe somehow that the extra bounce is not a big advantage you're basically incapable of understanding cricket.

Bro every home condition is an advantage. That's why it's easier to play at home. There's nothing special about Australia having more bounce. It disadvantages Australia when they tour just as much as it helps them at home

 

[RossTaylorsBox]

Ground grubbers are the easiest deliveries to play.

 

[Victor Ian]

So Australia has the hardest time adjusting as we have to adjust our play for everywhere but here (maybe 50percent of games) but other teams only have to adjust for bounce once every 4 years. So unfair.