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What is your ranking of all Country's ATG XIs?

S

subshakerz

International Coach
Rather than go through the exercise of selecting an all-time ATG for each country, what would be your ranking of team's ATG XIs based on all-round strength? Of course, it depends on where they play, so someplace neutral like WI with a bit to offer for everyone.


Mine would be:
1)Australia - The Bradman factor plus the most balanced bowling attack
2) West Indies - Likely the strongest batting lineup after Australia and best pace attack overall
3) England - Hard to call, but depends on how to rank Barnes but very strong batting unit
4) South Africa - So many all-rounders and batting very deep
5) Pakistan - The pace attacks gives them the edge over other SC teams
6) India - A lot of batting strength but not a lot in the bowling dept to win matches except in SC
7) NZ - Hadlee and Bond will be a tough combo
8) SL - Great batting but a lot depends on Murali to deliver
 
Gob

Gob

International Coach
Aus marginally ahead of WI because of spin

SA

Eng is a wildcard since most of their greats are from the early 20 century (assuming that these teams will play each other)
 
F

Fuller Pilch

Hall of Fame Member
subshakerz said:
Rather than go through the exercise of selecting an all-time ATG for each country, what would be your ranking of team's ATG XIs based on all-round strength? Of course, it depends on where they play, so someplace neutral like WI with a bit to offer for everyone.


Mine would be:
1)Australia - The Bradman factor plus the most balanced bowling attack
2) West Indies - Likely the strongest batting lineup after Australia and best pace attack overall
3) England - Hard to call, but depends on how to rank Barnes but very strong batting unit
4) South Africa - So many all-rounders and batting very deep
5) Pakistan - The pace attacks gives them the edge over other SC teams
6) India - A lot of batting strength but not a lot in the bowling dept to win matches except in SC
7) NZ - Hadlee and Bond will be a tough combo
8) SL - Great batting but a lot depends on Murali to deliver
Click to expand...
Agree with the rankings. Would also have Zimbabwe (9th) ahead of Bangladesh (10th) for now, but expect that to change in the next 5 years. If India's quicks kick on they may improve their ranking. Likewise if the likes of Conway and Mitchell can average 55 after 40 tests and Jamieson takes 200 wickets at 20, NZ would move higher.
 
bagapath

bagapath

International Captain
Australia at 1 is a foregone conclusion. great middle order with God at no.3. smashing wk/batsman. ATG pace attack; and three ATG leg spinners to choose from. World beating all-rounder available for selection too. Not the best openers of all-time, but certainly world class and almost good enough to join the other 9 players. many awesome fielders. So, almost a flawless side.

pak/ind/ NZ/ SL at 5/6/7/8 is also fine. though Ind and NZ might swap places on some lists. better batting versus better bowling, basically. But it is marginal.

no 2/3/4 is more difficult to decide...

England has the best batting line-up after Australia. greatest openers of all time, easily. And a middle order that can match anyone else's. And great WK options too. also, at least three bowlers who can walk into any team (Truman/ Barnes/Laker).

West Indies has the benefit of having the most dynamic middle order batsmen and fast bowlers to choose from. best pace attack, pound for pound and exciting middle order full of stroke makers. no spinner of ATG quality though. The WK and openers are great but not of the same standard as England's, for example.

South Africa, in my opinion, is probably likely to win more tests than the English and West Indies ATG teams. The middle order options from Kallis, G Pollock, Dudley Nourse, ABDV and Amla are good as any of the other teams' barring Australia. Smith, Kirsten, Mitchell are a superb pool of openers to choose from. QDK, Waite and Boucher are three ATG wicket keepers. So is the all-rounder Aubrey Faulkner. Tayfiled is an ATG spinner. The pace attack - from Steyn, Donald, Rabada and S Pollock - is equal to the very best the game has ever seen.

I would go

Australia
South Africa
West Indies
England
Pakistan
India = NZ
SL
 
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S

subshakerz

International Coach
bagapath said:
Australia at 1 is a foregone conclusion. great middle order with God at no.3. smashing wk/batsman. ATG pace attack; and three ATG leg spinners to choose from. World beating all-rounder available for selection too. Not the best openers of all-time, but certainly world class and almost good enough to join the other 9 players. many awesome fielders. So, almost a flawless side.

pak/ind/ NZ/ SL at 5/6/7/8 is also fine. though Ind and NZ might swap places on some lists. better batting versus better bowling, basically. But it is marginal.

no 2/3/4 is more difficult to decide...

England has the best batting line-up after Australia. greatest openers of all time, easily. And a middle order that can match anyone else's. And great WK options too. also, at least three bowlers who can walk into any team (Truman/ Barnes/Laker).

West Indies has the benefit of having the most dynamic middle order batsmen and fast bowlers to choose from. best pace attack, pound for pound and exciting middle order full of stroke makers. no spinner of ATG quality though. The WK and openers are great but not of the same standard as England's, for example.

South Africa, in my opinion, is probably likely to win more tests than the English and West Indies ATG teams. The middle order options from Kallis, G Pollock, Dudley Nourse, ABDV and Amla are good as any of the other teams' barring Australia. Smith, Kirsten, Mitchell are a superb pool of openers to choose from. QDK, Waite and Boucher are three ATG wicket keepers. So is the all-rounder Aubrey Faulkner. Tayfiled is an ATG spinner. The pace attack - from Steyn, Donald, Rabada and S Pollock - is equal to the very best the game has ever seen.

I would go

Australia
South Africa
West Indies
England
Pakistan
India = NZ
SL
Click to expand...
Good points. However, I feel SA's overall batting is not quite the elite level of WI and Eng who occupy most of the top ten batsmen of all time.

You could argue that SA bat deeper with Procter and Pollock but dont think that will tilt the scales.

I actually think Eng vs SA and Ind vs NZ will be the tightest games of all the country XIs.
 
ankitj

ankitj

Hall of Fame Member
Agree with Bagapath though that SA ATG XI is slightly underrated. They have all bases covered with greats like few other teams. They have a (near) ATG spin bowler that WI don't; I don't rate Lance Gibbs. They have pace attack comprising exclusively ATGs that England will likely not; after Trueman and Barnes, others are not in ATG category and it's debatable if Barnes is a conventional pace bowler. They have great openers to pick from where Australia have a weakness.

Picking them as #2 makes complete sense. Australia due to Bradman, Gilchrist and Warne wins over all other teams.
 
S

subshakerz

International Coach
ankitj said:
Agree with Bagapath though that SA ATG XI is slightly underrated. They have all bases covered with greats like few other teams. They have a (near) ATG spin bowler that WI don't; I don't rate Lance Gibbs. They have pace attack comprising exclusively ATGs that England will likely not; after Trueman and Barnes, others are not in ATG category and it's debatable if Barnes is a conventional pace bowler. They have great openers to pick from where Australia have a weakness.

Picking them as #2 makes complete sense. Australia due to Bradman, Gilchrist and Warne wins over all other teams.
Click to expand...
WI have a much better middle order than SA. Headley, Viv, Lara and Sobers vs Pollock, Kallis, Dudley/ABD/Amla and Faulkner is not a contest.
Openers are comparable in Greenidge and Conrad Hunte vs Smith and Richards.
WI pace attack of Marshall, Ambrose and Holding/Garner is better than Steyn, Donald and Pollock.
SA have a better spinner and more bowler options but WI to me are superior in ATG quality.

SA vs Eng is more interesting. England have Hutton, Hobbs and Hammond who are in the top 10 bats of all-time but SA are a better bowling side.

Pretty surprising England havent produced an ATG pacer since Trueman frankly.
 
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Red

Red

The normal awards that everyone else has
Lawry
Simpson
Bradman
Chappell
Smith
Miller/Border
Gilchrist +
Lindwall/OReilly
Warne
Lillee
McGrath

Greenidge
Worrell
Richards
Lara
Weekes
Sobers
Walcott +
Marshall
Gibbs/Holding
Garner
Ambrose

Hutton
Hobbs
Hammond
Root
Compton
Botham
Knott
Trueman
Bedser
Underwood
Statham
 
h_hurricane

h_hurricane

International Vice-Captain
ataraxia said:
yeah I don't see any large amount of posts in this thread being about anything other than the slug for 5th
Click to expand...
I will start this.

W/L ratio for India and Pakistan against top 8 teams (excluding AFG, BD, Ireland and Zim) since Pakistan's debut.

 
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