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What criteria would you use in rating the best?

Uppercut

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What Days of Grace has done is referred to as exxponential formula. With each unit of x gets away from zero or a set number, y increases more and more. 1, 2, 4, 8, 16, 32, 64 is an example. Like wise 1, 3, 6, 10, 15, 21.... also can be set in to a function that is exponetial. That's easy maths I would think. We all learnt exponential series in our maths classes:ph34r:
An exponential curve? Yes, i think i could use one of those if i put my mind to it, but why not just invert the average and multiply by a constant? Is that any less accurate, because to me, it would appear a lot easier to set up?
 

bryce

International Regular
I reckon I would probaly be more interested in seeing 50+ batting averages as opposed to 100+ averages, when you see Fleming that high up you realise that the statistic does not tell you all too much...
 

Days of Grace

International Captain
I reckon I would probaly be more interested in seeing 50+ batting averages as opposed to 100+ averages, when you see Fleming that high up you realise that the statistic does not tell you all too much...
That's actually not a bad point, there, bryce.

I guess what I want to show is how much a batsman goes on with it and makes it count when he is 'set'. By 'set', do you mean once he reaches 50? I think I agree with that. What does everyone else think?

What I have time, I will list a 50+ batting average table.
 

Migara

Cricketer Of The Year
My other issue, is that draws on flat tracks are overly represented. Who cares if a player socres runs by the boatload when bowlers toil and a result is never a possibility. it is pressure free gimmi runs that are unimportant.
Converesely then, wickets on bad pitches (low scoring games) should value less than wickets on flatter tracks. Fast bowlers wickets on green seamers should worth less than ones on dustbowls.
 

Migara

Cricketer Of The Year
An exponential curve? Yes, i think i could use one of those if i put my mind to it, but why not just invert the average and multiply by a constant? Is that any less accurate, because to me, it would appear a lot easier to set up?
Only thing is it is difficult to adjust. if you wanted Average of 19 to have twice points as 20, and 20 to have 1.9 points as 21, exponential curve is the only solution. The power curve you suggest, cannot be adjusted by that way Because of the adjustment you get a complex formular like constant1*e^(x*constant2) type equation
 

Days of Grace

International Captain
Yes, the curve is the way to go. And I have done it, so I think I'll leave it the way it is.

Migara, you make a good point about bowlers getting wickets on greentops. It is almost impossible to get pitch conditions for every match in test history. Only the quality of the opposition can be ascertained.

The only thing I can do is give penalties to bowlers and boosts for batsmen that played before 1914, when pitches were much worse, but general consensus.
 

deeps

International 12th Man
I think people here overrate strike-rates a fair bit for bowlers.

A bowler can take wickets every 50 balls, which is great, but go for over 3.5 runs an over. He would have a bowling average of 30, which is fairly, umm...average.
In a test match, i'd take this bowler any day of the week.

Maybe not so in a one dayer, but yeh.
 

deeps

International 12th Man
I think scoring under pressure (not a statistic) is one of the biggest things I look for. Technique is another
Average of course adds something to it, but is not the be all end all.
 

Uppercut

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I think scoring under pressure (not a statistic) is one of the biggest things I look for. Technique is another
Average of course adds something to it, but is not the be all end all.
That's interesting, what do you mean by "technique"? I've always thought a good technique to be one with which you score a lot of runs, and a bad technique to be one with which you don't score many runs. I've heard people say players like Virender Sehwag, Shiv Chanderpaul, even Mike Hussey have a bad technique, but if their techniques are poor they wouldn't score such huge amounts of runs. Agree? Disagree?
 

Days of Grace

International Captain
IMO, technique is good for survival on days when conditions are not in your favour. However, these days, those conditions seem few and far between, so I think that if you are good at putting the bad ball away, then you will be successful.
 

Top_Cat

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IMO, technique is good for survival on days when conditions are not in your favour. However, these days, those conditions seem few and far between, so I think that if you are good at putting the bad ball away, then you will be successful.
Interesting because Ian Chappell has been quoted as saying pretty much the opposite. He said his brother wasn't as good on unpredictable pitches because his technique was so rigidly 'correct' that he was less able to get ugly runs, a pre-requisite for scoring in tough conditions. Chappelli offered it as a reason for why Greg's average in England is 13 runs less than his overall average, seaming decks being his downfall with such a correct technique.
 

Uppercut

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Interesting because Ian Chappell has been quoted as saying pretty much the opposite. He said his brother wasn't as good on unpredictable pitches because his technique was so rigidly 'correct' that he was less able to get ugly runs, a pre-requisite for scoring in tough conditions. Chappelli offered it as a reason for why Greg's average in England is 13 runs less than his overall average, seaming decks being his downfall with such a correct technique.
Also, aggressive players often excel on minefields because there's always a ball somewhere down the line with your number on it, and the Gilchrists have scored a lot more runs than the Boycotts by the time that ball comes.

I agree with what Chappell is saying, with Graeme Smith a good example of one who is excellent at grinding out runs and scores an absolutely huge amount of 4th-innings runs on wearing pitches, but is often criticised for his poor technique. Classy-looking players often praised for their technique such as Sachin Tendulkar do nothing of the sort.
 

Days of Grace

International Captain
I reckon I would probaly be more interested in seeing 50+ batting averages as opposed to 100+ averages, when you see Fleming that high up you realise that the statistic does not tell you all too much...
This was a good suggestion, and so I changed it.

Averages runs scored once a batsmen scores 50.

1 DG Bradman 123.44
2 GA Headley 87.17
3 V Sehwag 86.81
4 DL Amiss 86.11
5 WR Hammond 85.34
6 WH Ponsford 75.92
7 GS Sobers 72.72
8 KC Sangakkara 72.38
9 SR Waugh 70.49
10 DM Jones 69.84
11 MEK Hussey 69.23
12 Zaheer Abbas 68.59
13 JDP Oram 67.71 :cool:
14 SR Tendulkar 67.10
15 BC Lara 65.84
16 RT Ponting 65.36
17 RG Pollock 65.20
18 E Paynter 65.00
19 KP Pietersen 64.78
20 FMM Worrell 64.74
21 Hanif Mohammad 64.55
22 GC Smith 64.15
23 Mohammad Yousuf 63.79
24 AR Morris 62.43
25 WW Armstrong 62.27
26 JH Kallis 61.89
27 L Hutton 61.82
28 ML Hayden 61.46
29 PA de Silva 61.16
30 FS Jackson 60.75

Sehwag and Sangakkara are still up there, but Fleming, as predicted, takes a tumble. His 50+ average is 43.57

The lowest 50+ average for a batsmen ranking in the overall top 100 is Mark Waugh: 29.18.
I feel this is a worthy thing to include in a rating system of test batsmen. It shows mental fortitude and the ability to score big and take the game away from the opposition when you are 'on it'.
 

bryce

International Regular
Oram definately is one to go on once he is set, mental fortitude as you mentioned. One slight adjustment I would make(you probaly do no want to hear this:p) is for this particular statistic I would not take not outs into account and work out the averages treating not outs as out.
 

Days of Grace

International Captain
Oram definately is one to go on once he is set, mental fortitude as you mentioned. One slight adjustment I would make(you probaly do no want to hear this:p) is for this particular statistic I would not take not outs into account and work out the averages treating not outs as out.
Here, I would disagree. A batsmen finishing not out has the potential to score many more runs, particularly when he is 'set'.
 

bryce

International Regular
Here, I would disagree. A batsmen finishing not out has the potential to score many more runs, particularly when he is 'set'.
That, there is no doubt. I just feel that it would elimate any possible inflation of average because a batsman with a few not outs can possibly end up with an inflated average because a not out is in theory easier to attain once a batsman is past 50. Plus I think it would level out against the times a not out batsman on 50+ has to up his agression when batting with the tailenders, thus increasing his risk of being dismissed. This is typically the case when a batsman has ended then innings on 50+ not out.
 

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