*Unofficial* New Zealand Black Caps Thread

[HeathDavisSpeed]

What squads would you have run with @nzfan and @Immenso.

There are guys I like in this squad (e.g. Solia) who realistically aren't going to be fixtures in the first team. Others, I feel that we already know they're not good enough (e.g. van Beek, Duffy). Some, look like potential future options (Fisher, Lister) and then some who are on the fringes (Ravindra, Chapman, Rippon, the keepers).

Just seems a bit of a random mishmash of selections without a clear thread as to why.

 

[Immenso]

What squads would you have run with @nzfan and @Immenso.

There are guys I like in this squad (e.g. Solia) who realistically aren't going to be fixtures in the first team. Others, I feel that we already know they're not good enough (e.g. van Beek, Duffy). Some, look like potential future options (Fisher, Lister) and then some who are on the fringes (Ravindra, Chapman, Rippon, the keepers).

Just seems a bit of a random mishmash of selections without a clear thread as to why.

When I say " quite a worrying squad "

I'm not doing that from the POV of quibbling over the actual selections (Although, I gave a proposed squad on previous page a few days ago, without knowing availabilities).

It is more just worrying from the POV of the wheels of time, and seeing the quality of depth and youth looking like it is reverting to the mean. After our 2010s talent bulge.

This squad reminds me of those annual NZ Emerging Players squads for those tournaments in the Queensland winters back in the 2000s. Rather than the squads of the early 2010s with young prospects like youthful Latham, Neesham, Anderson, Sodhi, Milne, Young, Nicholls, Henry etc

 

[nzfan]

I don't think they could separate out red ball and white ball sides like an Aussie A, Lions or India A sides go. Don't think we have that sort of budget to send out two different teams.

Ideally I would have gone with

Batters:

1. Carter
2. Worker
3. Bruce
4. Rob O'Donnell
5. Foxcroft (Why not? Unless he's ruled out because his qualification went to dogs) otherwise Troy Johnson


Keepers

6. Cam Fletcher
7. Dane Cleaver

All rounders

8. Josh Clarkson
9. Cole McConchie
10. Ravindra (Primary spinner in my opinion if Ajaz isn't available) - Would be my captain or anyone that even has a long shot as a captain. The only time Wellington won an under 19 national champs was under Rachin and I think that could be the only time he captained as well. If Foxcroft or Troy Johnson was picked and if it's too much of a burden for Ravindra then one of those two to captain. I can see why they picked Rob O'Donnell, he has won trophies but chances of him leading black caps in future is a very very long shot.
11. Rippon

Spin bowlers

12. Ashok or Jayden Lennox or Tim Pringle
13. Ajaz (I know he's got nothing to prove as for test cricket is concerned but would have played him in both formats, why do we rule him out of white ball cricket? He's good enough to be white ball cricketer and no reason why he can't play WC in India. Also having someone like him in the lineup would be amazing and the rest can learn from him)


Pacers

14. Duffy
15. Fisher
16. Ed Nuttal

Just couldn't come to a 15 man squad. Couldn't think of taking anyone out of the above. If we have to keep to 15 maybe take Ajaz out.

 

[thundaboult]

100% agree with ajaz in white ball cricket.

 

[Flem274*]

Yeah his mini-tour of Bangers was enough to make me interested in what he could do for an Asian WC.

Santner definitely the best team balance option in SENA, but the WC isn't in SENA. For that same reason I wouldn't mind running with 2/3 spin options (obv one must bat top 6) until the WC even at home.

 

[straw man]

View attachment 32742

This squad very heavy on experienced domestic players who are unlikely to get a run for NZ. I get that you send a couple of experienced pros to give the team some shape, but does it really need all of Bruce, O'Donnell, Bowes, Carter, Solia and Van Beek?

One player I am excited to see there is Fisher.

 

[jcas0167]

I guess after the success of Mitchell and to some extent Bracewell they are looking to unearth the next grizzled 30 yr old debutant.

 

[jcas0167]

From Ross Taylor's book celebration last night. They had a Q&A with Bryan Waddle.

 

[Neil Young]

Jesus, could Wads look any more uncomfortable on that chair?

 

[nzfan]

This squad very heavy on experienced domestic players who are unlikely to get a run for NZ. I get that you send a couple of experienced pros to give the team some shape, but does it really need all of Bruce, O'Donnell, Bowes, Carter, Solia and Van Beek?

One player I am excited to see there is Fisher.

I thought so too but then looked at our next bunch of players and couldn't pick more than one or two to play for nz A. Most aren't even getting picked for their domestic sides. It's quite disappointing really. Can't imagine where our cricket will be 10 years time.

 

[Zinzan]

Fun Fact

 

[NZTailender]

The only remotely and vaguely impressive thing about that record are two wins vs India.

 

[Zinzan]

Obviously I was never going to comment on the quality of the opposition, it just makes such a pretty picture.

 

[NZTailender]

Obviously I was never going to comment on the quality of the opposition, it just makes such a pretty picture.

It's something he should frame now

 

[Fuller Pilch]

5 games vs Ireland
6 vs Bangladesh
3 vs Windies
1 vs Pakistan
2 vs India
3 vs Netherlands

Average of 57 in those matches

 

[Howsie]

View attachment 32742

That squad is pretty depressing, it’s pretty much just a team of domestic stalwarts. I’ve made my views on this current selection panel quite obvious over the years but they’re really going to put New Zealand cricket in a hole if they don’t up there game and get a little creative when it comes to selections for these types of squads.

The selection of Matt Fisher, sweet. He’s a kid with raw pace and yeah he’s probably 1-2 years away from being ready for international cricket but the ability is there.

But then why go and select four batsman in Bruce, Carter, O’Donnell and Bowes who are all in there late 20’s to early 30’s and we’ll probably be lucky to see one or two of them actually get regular international game time of the next few years. Surely picking a young batsman who has shown some real talent would make more sense?

 

[NZTailender]

That squad is pretty depressing, it’s pretty much just a team of domestic stalwarts. I’ve made my views on this current selection panel quite obvious over the years but they’re really going to put New Zealand cricket in a hole if they don’t up there game and get a little creative when it comes to selections for these types of squads.

The selection of Matt Fisher, sweet. He’s a kid with raw pace and yeah he’s probably 1-2 years away from being ready for international cricket but the ability is there.

But then why go and select four batsman in Bruce, Carter, O’Donnell and Bowes who are all in there late 20’s to early 30’s and we’ll probably be lucky to see one or two of them actually get regular international game time of the next few years. Surely picking a young batsman who has shown some real talent would make more sense?

Okay, but who? Beyond Rachin. Troy Johnson?

Bruce I kind of agree with, even though he was by far the top PS run scorer last season, but part of the A team is not just really young blokes getting a step up, it's domestic stalwarts who are ostensibly the next cabs off the ranks if there's an injury or massive loss in form from the first XI. A good A team will have a mix of experienced domestic first class players who haven't cracked the side due to good form in the first XI, and young guns getting a crack to see if they can handle the pressure of top level cricket, earlier than expected.

Go too far in one direction (old) and you underdevelop young talent who could forge long careers at the top level. Go too far in the other (young) you end up with guys who are expected to perform without top level experience (the stalwarts) or are out of their depth and have their confidence ruined (the young ones).

The squad is fairly conservative because they've rewarded guys who have done well in the shield and who aren't completely past it by this stage of their careers (no Rutherford etc). The horrible truth is the PS aren't exactly promoting really young players to give them a shot, except for maybe Otago. Most of the teams are built around guys who are 27-33.

 

[Mike5181]

The squad looks worse than it could be because Allen, Phillips, Sears are on international duty and Nathan Smith is injured.

 

[Howsie]

Okay, but who? Beyond Rachin. Troy Johnson?

Bruce I kind of agree with, even though he was by far the top PS run scorer last season, but part of the A team is not just really young blokes getting a step up, it's domestic stalwarts who are ostensibly the next cabs off the ranks if there's an injury or massive loss in form from the first XI. A good A team will have a mix of experienced domestic first class players who haven't cracked the side due to good form in the first XI, and young guns getting a crack to see if they can handle the pressure of top level cricket, earlier than expected.

Go too far in one direction (old) and you underdevelop young talent who could forge long careers at the top level. Go too far in the other (young) you end up with guys who are expected to perform without top level experience (the stalwarts) or are out of their depth and have their confidence ruined (the young ones).

The squad is fairly conservative because they've rewarded guys who have done well in the shield and who aren't completely past it by this stage of their careers (no Rutherford etc). The horrible truth is the PS aren't exactly promoting really young players to give them a shot, except for maybe Otago. Most of the teams are built around guys who are 27-33.

Yeah I mean you’re right, there isn’t exactly a host of 20-25 year olds knocking the door down aside from Rachin and Nathan Smith

I’d like to see Josh Clarkson get a gig with the white ball team. He’s probably the cleanest striker of a cricket ball I’ve ever seen come out of New Zealand.

I don’t see anywhere the amount of domestic cricket as I use to but I’ve got a good mate down south who reckons Zak Foulkes will quickly rise through the ranks. I personally haven’t seen anything of him but any kid opening the bating and bowling first change on FC debut probably has something about him. Why not take a kid like that? They done it with Boult and the like back in the day.

I just personally don’t see the point is taking so many old domestic players on one trip.

 

[Howsie]

My problem with Tom Bruce is that he’s consistently batted at 5-6 for the majority of his career. If you want to make a claim for the test team you have to bat in the top 4, period.

Even most keepers in the shield bat no lower than 5.