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The Ramprakash Conundrum

wpdavid

International Coach
Are there any good Test players who took 3 attempts before being successful?
One from your neck of the woods comes to mind.
Dennis Amiss played from 1966 to 1968 without doing much and was dropped.
Played a handful of tests in 1971, was dropped again.
Came back in the winter of 1972-73 and went on to average 46 in tests.
 

91Jmay

International Coach
Good shout on Amiss and Bairstow.

Hayden another good one, and I suppose Martyn is arguable as well.
 

stumpski

International Captain
Yes, of course Ballance should be playing test cricket.
For zimbabwe.
And perhaps he would have done, if the government hadn't effectively driven him out of the country by repossessing his family's farm. Hard to see why he should show any loyalty to the country of his birth after that.
 

AndrewB

International Regular
Flintoff:
- played a couple of Tests in 1998, did nothing, dropped.
- played 7 Tests in 1999-2000, did almost nothing, dropped.
- played the winter of 2001-2, bowled OK and scored a 100, but the following summer (not fully fit) did very little
- came back from the injury the following summer, and in the next 3-and-a-half years averaged 40 with the bat, 27 with the ball.
 

Prince EWS

Global Moderator
Are there any good Test players who took 3 attempts before being successful?
Misbah immediately springs to mind. He had his first crack at Test cricket at 27, playing five sporadic Tests and averaging 13. You could actually argue this was multiple chances because they weren't consecutive Tests, but I think the first two of those Tests were just one-off injury replacements rather than him actually getting dropped (the last three were all one series though, so it seems that was his first proper crack). He then got dropped and didn't play again for four years, after which point he had a longer run of 14 Tests before getting dropped again. After another ten months out of the side he was not only recalled but appointed captain despite being 36 years old and having a very mediocre Test record (averaging 33). He didn't look back from that point though - over 4000 runs in 56 Tests at an average of 52.
 

vic_orthdox

Global Moderator
Technical faults are overblown. If you're smashing FC bowlers, you're solid technically. Wouldn't be there otherwise. I know the magnification of replays, pundits and analysis blow up the feel of some technical faults but a lot of the time it's millimetres and microseconds.
This is true in the case of dismissals. Less so in ability to score - Ballance at times has looked like he can't score due to some of his technical deficiencies, whereas a lot of guys actually score where they are loosest. Trescothick comes to mind here, having been mentioned in this thread - often out driving away from his body, but get a decent one away and he'd be lacing them for the rest of the day.
 

Top_Cat

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Mark Waugh too. Could have him in real trouble early but as soon as he put one away off his pads, you were in for a long day.
 

tobe_ornot2

Banned
Ramp's is a very odd case. Contrary to popular belief, he played quite a lot of test cricket, 52 matches to be exact and failed to leave a lastimg impression apart from that century against the Windies. Yet, whenever I watched him, live or on TV playing first class cricket, he seemed a much better batsman. The only explanation that works is that he did not have the mental capacity to cope at the highest level and that FC cricket was his ceiling. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that in my opinion.

Does that mean players with very good domestic forms should be given a repeated shot at the test side? Well maybe...It would depend on how many matches they are being given by the selectors. I think 20 matches, around 40 innings is enough to know if a batsman can handle test cricket or not.
 

Burgey

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Boonie debuted vs WI in 84, made a 50 and a few tests later was dropped. Made the Ashes series in 85 and didn't do much. Was eventually made VC but got dropped for a few tests in approx 86 or 87 before coming back and cementing his place.

Interesting sidelight - iirc every player who served as VC under TOTAB was dropped from the side at one point while in that position.
 
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Burgey

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As for players who dominate domestically but don't live up to the potential on the big stage, Greg Matthews is a stand out imo. Bloke was consistently there or thereabouts with leading Shield wicket takers for over a decade, but wasn't up to it as test bowler. Very good batsman at test level though.
 

honestbharani

Whatever it takes!!!
Boonie debuted vs WI in 84, made a 50 and a few tests later was dropped. Made the Ashes series in 85 and didn't do much. Was eventually made VC but got dropped for a few tests in approx 86 or 87 before coming back and cementing his place.

Interesting sidelight - iirc every player who served as VC under TOTAB was dropped from the side at one point while in that position.

What an insecure old bugger. The real AB will never do that. :p
 

mr_mister

Hall of Fame Member
Ramps ashes record was very solid. Found McGrath and Warne(though he was missing from the 98 series, where Ramps was Mr consistent) easy enough to play
 
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