The Greats

[Pratters]

any results on the last 24 hours and who's great?

8 hours to go still for the voting period to end.

 

[GladiatrsInBlue]

YES

Imran
Mcgrath
Richards
Marshall

NO

Gilli
Lillee
Kallis
Waugh

 

[archie mac]

I have watched and played cricket since the mid-70's when Lillee and Thomson routed the Windies 5-0. I rate Lillee as one of the best I've ever seen, but I read with total bewilderment the comments made in this thead about McGrath.

I ask myself the question, who would I want to be bowling when I needed 10 wickets to win a match in a tight situation, Lillee or McGrath?

Lillee was a great, but Glen McGrath is the one I would give the ball to...his record speaks for itself. Most top line batsman have trouble with the consistancy of his line and length and his outfielding is superior to Lillee's.

Lillee was and always will be my hero, but McGrath is a true great.

Interesting I would give the ball to Lillee

 

[Ringua]

Ashes-No
Laxman's 281-no
Imran Khan-Yes
G.D.McGrath-Yes
A.C.Gilchrist-Yes
S.R.Waugh-No
I.V.A.Richards-Yes
M.Marshall-No
D.Lillee-No
J.Kallis-no

 

[Pedro Delgado]

Mark Taylor

"Great" bloke.

 

[warrioryohannan]

My all time greats would be,

Don Bradman
Sobers
Warne
Imran Khan
King Richards
Lillee
Sir Jack Hobbs
WG Grace
Wally Hammonds
Sir frank Worrell

 

[warrioryohannan]

Ashes-- Not all Ashes were great so... NO
Laxman's 281-Yes
Imran Khan-YES!
G.D.McGrath-Yes
A.C.Gilchrist-no
S.R.Waugh-No
I.V.A.Richards-YES!
M.Marshall-yes
D.Lillee-YES!
J.Kallis-no

 

[social]

How can McGrath not be a great. I'm assuming the "there are no good bowlers today" and "the pitches are so good for batting today" arguments has been used to decry the feats of some modern day batsman. How then can one deny McGrath, whose record is the equal of any seamer in the last 50 years (to pick an arbitrary number) of test cricket? And how can Lillee be a great but not McGrath? It boggles my mind.

And one last comment on Kallis- he is one of the best batsman of his era, over a long period of time, and also happens to be a genuine all-rounder! If that doesn't make him a great than I don't know what does. I won't directly compare him to Sobers lest I offend you all (the stats do a good enough job of comparing them anyway), but what other cricketer bar Sobers has ever been able to do the job that Kallis has?

Absolutely correct on both counts

 

[FaaipDeOiad]

And one last comment on Kallis- he is one of the best batsman of his era, over a long period of time, and also happens to be a genuine all-rounder! If that doesn't make him a great than I don't know what does. I won't directly compare him to Sobers lest I offend you all (the stats do a good enough job of comparing them anyway), but what other cricketer bar Sobers has ever been able to do the job that Kallis has?

Sobers vs Kallis is a perfect example of why comparing players on statistics alone is ridiculous.

Have a look, if you like, at the number of wickets Sobers took in his career, compared to other bowlers of his time. Then, look at the bowling averages of his peers with the ball, like Charlie Griffith and Wes Hall, and also Frank Worrell and the other spinners who passed through the team at the time.

Sobers took the new ball for the West Indies regularly. He was the best batsman in the world at the time by a country mile. He bowled two kinds of spin when the ball got old. He was the best slip fielder of his generation. Along with being the best batsman, he was one of the most prolific wicket takers of his era. At times when the West Indies had a weak attack, he carried it with his useful mediums and then was the stike spin bowler. When the West Indies had a better attack, he played a batsman, a captain, and chipped in with his bowling, filling in overs and breaking partnerships with his varied abilities. He doesn't have a great bowling average, but he was a bowler in the literal sense. He bowled a huge number of overs, and took many wickets. Kallis today is nothing more than a part timer, and even at his peak with the ball he was nowhere near Sobers' league. And, of course, when he was better with the ball than he is today, he was much poorer with the bat.

There is NO comparison between them as cricketers. Kallis may well be remembered as a great all-rounder after he retires, but saying he was a better bowler than Sobers because of his average (or even as good) is like saying Imran Khan was a better batsman than Ian Botham because he has a better average, or Darren Gough a better bowler.

 

[thierry henry]

Sobers vs Kallis is a perfect example of why comparing players on statistics alone is ridiculous.

Have a look, if you like, at the number of wickets Sobers took in his career, compared to other bowlers of his time. Then, look at the bowling averages of his peers with the ball, like Charlie Griffith and Wes Hall, and also Frank Worrell and the other spinners who passed through the team at the time.

Sobers took the new ball for the West Indies regularly. He was the best batsman in the world at the time by a country mile. He bowled two kinds of spin when the ball got old. He was the best slip fielder of his generation. Along with being the best batsman, he was one of the most prolific wicket takers of his era. At times when the West Indies had a weak attack, he carried it with his useful mediums and then was the stike spin bowler. When the West Indies had a better attack, he played a batsman, a captain, and chipped in with his bowling, filling in overs and breaking partnerships with his varied abilities. He doesn't have a great bowling average, but he was a bowler in the literal sense. He bowled a huge number of overs, and took many wickets. Kallis today is nothing more than a part timer, and even at his peak with the ball he was nowhere near Sobers' league. And, of course, when he was better with the ball than he is today, he was much poorer with the bat.

There is NO comparison between them as cricketers. Kallis may well be remembered as a great all-rounder after he retires, but saying he was a better bowler than Sobers because of his average (or even as good) is like saying Imran Khan was a better batsman than Ian Botham because he has a better average, or Darren Gough a better bowler.

Imran was a better batsman than Botham because of his average. He scored runs more consistently over the entirety of his career.

Nowhere in that post do you do anything to prove Sobers' bowling credentials. You basically admit that his average is poor because he simply wasn't good enough to carry the attack.

I don't care who you are, if you average 34 with the ball over that period of time it PROVES conclusively that you are pretty average with the ball.

 

[thierry henry]

Agree with half of that.

Do you honestly think Kallis is still a good bowler?

who cares!!!!!!

He's already taken 180 wickets at 31, while averaging high 50s with the bat! He doesn't need to bowl anymore!

Sobers did the same but took 230-odd wickets and somehow that makes him the unquestioned greatest all rounder of all time, while Kallis still has something to prove.

Sobers and Kallis are the only 2 players in the entire history of the game to be absolutely world class specialist batsman as well as a genuine bowling option imo.

 

[nightprowler10]

Regardless of the fact that I have a biased view on Akram, don't you guys think he was one of the greatest bowlers of all time? I don't see much mention of him in this thread. The man holds an ODI record that more than likely noone can top in our life time. He has mutiple hattricks in both forms of the game. He, along with others, perfected the art of reverse swing. We all know he could bat when his team needed him to.

What more do you need?

 

[warrioryohannan]

I think the three greats produced by Pakistan over the years happen to be,

1 Imran Khan

2 Javed Miandad

3 Abdul Qadir

In that Order. They are the ones from whose contribution Pakistan benefitted the most.

 

[nightprowler10]

I think the three greats produced by Pakistan over the years happen to be,

1 Imran Khan

2 Javed Miandad

3 Abdul Qadir

In that Order. They are the ones from whose contribution Pakistan benefitted the most.

What?! How could you put Qadir in there and not Akram? Don't get me wrong, I have a lot of respect for Qadir, but his services pale in comparison to Akram's.

 

[social]

Regardless of the fact that I have a biased view on Akram, don't you guys think he was one of the greatest bowlers of all time? I don't see much mention of him in this thread. The man holds an ODI record that more than likely noone can top in our life time. He has mutiple hattricks in both forms of the game. He, along with others, perfected the art of reverse swing. We all know he could bat when his team needed him to.

What more do you need?

Someone's alrady nominated him, i think.

The guy is obviously a great but given that some people are saying that McGrath (who has at least as good a record as Wasim), Gilchrist and Waugh (second best Aus bat behind Bradman) arent, we'll just keep this secret between us.

 

[nightprowler10]

Someone's alrady nominated him, i think.

The guy is obviously a great but given that some people are saying that McGrath (who has at least as good a record as Wasim), Gilchrist and Waugh (second best Aus bat behind Bradman) arent, we'll just keep this secret between us.

McGrath and Waugh are definitely greats. But as far as Gilly goes, he'll be remembered as one of the most feared of our era, but definitely not a great IMO.

 

[social]

McGrath and Waugh are definitely greats. But as far as Gilly goes, he'll be remembered as one of the most feared of our era, but definitely not a great IMO.

Given that Gilly has already been named by his peers as the most dangerous batsman in world cricket and, amongst others, Benaud, Botham, Holding and Smith have included him in all-time X!s, I think he's already surpassed that assessment.

 

[marc71178]

He's already taken 180 wickets at 31, while averaging high 50s with the bat! He doesn't need to bowl anymore!

So is that why when a good side is batting he's suddenly got an injury and can't bowl, but a week later Zimbabwe are in town and you can't get the ball off him then?

 

[Pratters]

Over whelming response I must say!

Its tough to make the list of greats as the criteria is tough. So if some one doesnt make it, dont blame me!


Candidate total votes against
Ashes 34 15
Laxman's-281 35 11
Imran Khan 38 2
McGrath 38 8
Gilchrist 38 25
Waugh 38 14
Richards 38 0
Marshall 38 8
Lillee 38 13
Kallis 38 38


So the candidates who made made the list are Imran Khan, G.McGrath, V.Richards and M.Marshall.

 

[Pratters]

The candidates for the next voting are as follows. The voting period is the next 14 and half hours and closes at 9 PM IST.

Hobbs
Akram
Hadlee
Lara's 153*
Holding's over to Boycott
S.Waugh's 63* and 200 to win the series in Windies 1995
Ashes 2005