The bowler of the 90s and 00s

[viriya]

Australia of the 2000s basically changed how test matches were played.. going for the draw is looked down upon nowadays - not losing was usually the first motivation before that. That's why I consider their results much better.

 

[cnerd123]

Australia of the 2000s basically changed how test matches were played.. going for the draw is looked down upon nowadays - not losing was usually the first motivation before that. That's why I consider their results much better.

Someone should let Cook and MSD know

 

[The Battlers Prince]

The best ever - get it right. Batting line-up was better, fast bowling was worse, spin bowling was way better (since WI didn't have any).. and results were much, much better.

Lance Gibbs was not a nobody

 

[Burgey]

I think that the last couple of years of Ponting's career have somewhat clouded just how ****ing good he was for a large proportion of his career.

I swear, the smug little bastard never seemed to get out between 2002ish and 2008ish. Ton after ton after ton in big match situations, albeit very average captaincy.

I've said before, when the stats Nazis of 20-30 years' time look back, they'll wonder what the fuss was about Ponting because they'll see his final average. He'll end up being the most historically under rated player of the era.

 

[viriya]

Lance Gibbs was not a nobody

He also played his last match in 1976.

 

[smash84]

He also played his last match in 1976.

Yeah Lance Gibbs is irrelevant and so is the fact that a spinner would be needed. They had a battery of pace bowlers who all averaged sub 25 during that time. Aus had 1 (Warne would be 2nd if you would include him in that group as a borderline). To put that in context Pakistan have only had 4 of such in their history. India have had none. SL only 1.

While Australia's batting is arguably superior but WI had the best batsman to play cricket since Bradman (IMO) and of course others were no mugs with the bat.

 

[kyear2]

W.I 1984

Gordon Greenidge
Desmond Haynes
Richie Richardson
I.V.A. Richards
Larry Gomes
Clive Lloyd
Jeffrey Dujon
Malcolm Marshall
Michael Holding
Joel Garner
Courtney Walsh

I would happily concede Gilchrist and Warne, but much better batting? Hardly.

One could even argue that with that bowling attack one didn't even need a spinner.

 

[kyear2]

Don't get me wrong, this is a superb team

Australia 2002

Matthew Hayden
Justin Langer
Ricky Ponting
Mark Waugh
Steve Waugh
Damien Martyn
Adam Gilchrist
Shane Warne
Brett Lee
Jason Gillespie
Glenn McGrath

I would say two equal teams.

 

[viriya]

I would only pick Viv to replace Martyn in the Aussie line-up.. Maybe Lloyd for Lehmann.

Aus 2003/04

Matthew Hayden
Justin Langer
Ricky Ponting
Damien Martyn
Steve Waugh
Darren Lehmann
Adam Gilchrist
Shane Warne
Brett Lee
Jason Gillespie
Glenn McGrath

For bowling Marshall and Holding would replace Gillespie and Lee, Warne would keep his place over Garner. So that would mean only 4 aussies would be replaced.

 

[Dan]

WI 1984	AUS 2002
Greenidge Haynes Richards Lloyd Richardson Gomes Dujon Marshall Holding Garner Walsh Harper (?)	Hayden Langer Ponting S Waugh M Waugh Martyn Gilchrist McGrath Gillespie Lee Kasprowicz/Bichel Warne

Greenidge vs. Hayden too close to call
Marshall vs. McGrath too close to call

Richards vs. Ponting would too close to call if I hadn't picked the series which triggered Ponting's awesome run (that pull shot for 6 to win the Test and bring up his ton vs. RSA was the turning point in my mind).

Batting orders messed around to rank players in order of skill/create equivalence + hypothetical 12th men added so I wasn't comparing Walsh with Warne.

WI with the better pace bowling while Australia have the batting, IMO.

 

[Adders]

Australia of the 2000s basically changed how test matches were played.. going for the draw is looked down upon nowadays - not losing was usually the first motivation before that. That's why I consider their results much better.

Yeah......Australia invented wining.

 

[kyear2]

I would only pick Viv to replace Martyn in the Aussie line-up.. Maybe Lloyd for Lehmann.

Aus 2003/04

Matthew Hayden
Justin Langer
Ricky Ponting
Damien Martyn
Steve Waugh
Darren Lehmann
Adam Gilchrist
Shane Warne
Brett Lee
Jason Gillespie
Glenn McGrath

For bowling Marshall and Holding would replace Gillespie and Lee, Warne would keep his place over Garner. So that would mean only 4 aussies would be replaced.

Greenidge over Hayden/ Langer. Lloyd over Martyn

 

[viriya]

Greenidge over Hayden/ Langer. Lloyd over Martyn

I consider both Hayden and Langer to be better than both Greenidge and Haynes. Langer is a close one but I would pick him still. Martyn already replaced by Viv. Lloyd would replace Lehmann.

 

[kyear2]

I consider both Hayden and Langer to be better than both Greenidge and Haynes. Langer is a close one but I would pick him still.

I would be quite comfortable in stating that Gordon Greenidge was comfortably better than both.

Gordon Greenidge
Matthew Hayden/ Justin Langer
Ricky Ponting
Viv Richards
Steve Waugh
Clive Lloyd*
Adam Gilchrist+
Malcolm Marshall (1)
Shane Warne (4)
Michael Holding (3)
Glenn McGrath (2)

 

[smash84]

I would only pick Viv to replace Martyn in the Aussie line-up.. Maybe Lloyd for Lehmann.

Aus 2003/04

Matthew Hayden
Justin Langer
Ricky Ponting
Damien Martyn
Steve Waugh
Darren Lehmann
Adam Gilchrist
Shane Warne
Brett Lee
Jason Gillespie
Glenn McGrath

For bowling Marshall and Holding would replace Gillespie and Lee, Warne would keep his place over Garner. So that would mean only 4 aussies would be replaced.

Dude, you clearly have no clue about the WI team. Its clear you haven't seen them play. Their bowling was ridiculously strong.

Marshall = McGrath
Holding > Warne
garner, Roberts, Croft>> Gillespie, Lee

Heck you had people like Sylvester clarke who were terrorizing first class cricketers who couldn't find a place in that team.

 

[viriya]

Dude, you clearly have no clue about the WI team. Its clear you haven't seen them play. Their bowling was ridiculously strong.

Marshall = McGrath
Holding > Warne
garner, Roberts, Croft>> Gillespie, Lee

Heck you had people like Sylvester clarke who were terrorizing first class cricketers who couldn't find a place in that team.

That's why Gillespie and Lee get replaced. Warne though doesn't since he's the greatest leg-spinner of all-time.

 

[akilana]

Holding < Warne

 

[smash84]

I consider both Hayden and Langer to be better than both Greenidge and Haynes. Langer is a close one but I would pick him still. Martyn already replaced by Viv. Lloyd would replace Lehmann.

Langer was a tough nut and I rate him for that. Greenidge fell away towards the end of his career but if you had seen him bat you wouldn't hav3 said Hayden is comfortably better than Greenidge. Btw you might want to look up Hayden vs Ambrose for seeing Hayden exposed

 

[Dan]

Dude, you clearly have no clue about the WI team. Its clear you haven't seen them play. Their bowling was ridiculously strong.

Marshall = McGrath
Holding > Warne
garner, Roberts, Croft>> Gillespie, Lee

Heck you had people like Sylvester clarke who were terrorizing first class cricketers who couldn't find a place in that team.

Nothing you've posted here relates to virya's post at all.

He said he'd pick Marshall and Holding ahead of Gillespie and Lee FFS, so unless you want to argue Garner/Roberts/Croft > McGrath then he's agreeing with you completely

Furthermore, the attempts being made to compare an ATG fast bowler to an ATG spinner as if they are somehow equivalent is really, really pointless.

 

[smash84]

Holding < Warne

Why do you say that?