The ATG World XI's game

[Jarquis]

Offense not taken, I think novelty is the wrong word though - probably more as a testing of the waters or an experiment, perhaps. If everyone is against it, I'll change it for sure.

Yeah, I don't think you've made it a secret that you want a few experimental sides....

ITC allows you to make pitches however you like.
There are input values for size, bounce, wear, cracking and then fast/med/spin assistance

 

[Jager]

Yeah, I don't think you've made it a secret that you want a few experimental sides....

ITC allows you to make pitches however you like.
There are input values for size, bounce, wear, cracking and then fast/med/spin assistance

I might have mentioned it once or twice so it's possible to create a sticky wicket or close to it?

 

[marc71178]

Yeah, I don't think you've made it a secret that you want a few experimental sides....

Not entirely sure that's the idea of this though is it?!

 

[Jager]

I think I'm well outnumbered here and it shouldn't be up to me alone, so it's fairer if I go for Wardle.

 

[kyear2]

Why. Sticky wickets dont exist anymore for a reason.

 

[vic_orthdox]

Yeah, surely the idea is to pick the best side possible every time. I think starting in different spots is fair enough, changes the exercise up a bit to keep us all involved. If you honestly think that Shoaib is a better choice for that team, then pick him.

 

[Jager]

Wardle is now our number 8. I think it was a bad idea on my behalf to mix the fast bowlers and the spinners, it got very messy

 

[Jarquis]

I might have mentioned it once or twice so it's possible to create a sticky wicket or close to it?

Indeed.

Not entirely sure that's the idea of this though is it?!

No, that was my point. There's no point having something different for the sake of it.

 

[NasserFan207]

I'm not so sure 'the best possible side' has to follow the same exact formula. I like the idea of an experimental side or too, it adds an xfactor. There's no certainty that Wardle makes a better side than Akhtar does. Its up for debate IMO.

 

[watson]

If you have a four man pace attack then it's pretty obvious that you need a spinner/allrounder batting at number 6. It's up to us to start thinking about the next selection not for Jager to change his mind.

After all, it's his bat, his ball and his game. In other words if you play in someones backyard then you have to play by their rules.

Jager: "A hit onto the shed roof on the full that does NOT then go over the fence counts at 10 runs. Got that."

Friend: "I don't like that stupid rule."

Jager: "Tough titties. Go home then."


Akhtar should have stayed.

 

[watson]

(WARNING: Off topic.

Just realised that Kyear2's 3rd XI would probably beat his other 3 teams. It's got O'Reilly bowling with Barnes, Miller batting at 7, and Hadlee opening the attack with Akram.)

 

[Jacknife]

Conrad Hunte & Saeed Anwar

Richie Richardson
Colin Cowdrey
Graeme Thorpe

 

[Red]

(WARNING: Off topic.

Just realised that Kyear2's 3rd XI would probably beat his other 3 teams. It's got O'Reilly bowling with Barnes, Miller batting at 7, and Hadlee opening the attack with Akram.)

1st A.T XI
L. Hutton, J. Hobbs, D. Bradman, V. Richards, S. Tendulkar, G. Sobers, A. Gilchrist, I. Khan, M. Marshall, S. Warne, G. Mcgrath
2nd XI
H. Sutcliffe, B. Richards, G. Headley, G. Chappell, B. Lara, J. Kallis, A. Knott, F. Trueman, C. Ambrose, D. Lillee, M. Muralitharan.
3rd XI
Gavaskar, Sehwag, Hammond, Pollock, Walcott, Border, Miller, Hadlee, Akram, O'Reilly, Barnes
4th
Trumper ,Greenidge ,Ponting ,Weekes ,Miandad ,Sangakkara ,Faulkner ,Lindwall ,Holding ,Donald, Laker

Bradman is the one thing that messes with all these all time XIs. Take Bradman out of the first XI (and replace him with someone averaging between 50-60) and teams one, two and three look relatively even.

That third XI attack is pretty volatile and dangerous...Akram and Hadlee, followed by Miller, then Barnes and O'Reilly. Good variety there.

All Time Greats Super Test
First XI: Gavaskar-Hobbs-V.Richards-Bradman-Sobers-Gilchrist-Imran-Hadlee-Akram-Marshall-Warne

I really like this XI too. Love the batting depth and the bowling variety. You could actually trade one of the four quicks for a spinner if you wanted and still have Sober's left arm med/fast. And Warne batting at 11 is gold, he was pretty handy with the bat at times. Having Gilchrist and Sobers adds a lot of flexibility.

 

[watson]

Hi Monk! The prime object of any Test match is to get 20 wickets, hence the first task is to pick your best attack. Four top-class fast bowlers are a proven formula if the 70's and 80's are anything to go by. You then need those 4 fast bowlers to succeed on 'flat-tracks' as well as 'green-tops'. Therefore, they should be able to swing the ball at pace, or at least bowl extremely accurately at pace. However, some batsmen (eg. Robin Smith) play fast bowling very well so you still need a spinner to get those types of players out. If your allrounder also bowls spin then you have the ultimate attack of 4 quicks and 2 spinners.

However, because the team does have 4 top-class quicks and a spinner then there is little choice but for the keeper to bat at 6. The batting order is consequently 'unbalanced'. Therefore, each member of the tail must be able to make a contribution to the score. No 'bunnies' are allowed. If we assume that 1-3 average 60, 4-6 average 40, then 7 and the tail must average 20 runs to get to the magical total of 400. With 5 front-line bowlers that total can generally be defended no matter who the opposition.

Having said all that, the real reason to have an expansive bowling attack is that it makes for a more exciting Test match. No one likes to watch both teams score a ton of runs with the result being a life-less draw. We are really aiming for 4 innings of roughly 300 runs each.

But I could be completely wrong.

 

[Red]

Hi Monk! The prime object of any Test match is to get 20 wickets, hence the first task is to pick your best attack. Four top-class fast bowlers are a proven formula if the 70's and 80's are anything to go by. You then need those 4 fast bowlers to succeed on 'flat-tracks' as well as 'green-tops'. Therefore, they should be able to swing the ball at pace, or at least bowl extremely accurately at pace. However, some batsmen (eg. Robin Smith) play fast bowling very well so you still need a spinner to get those types of players out. If your allrounder also bowls spin then you have the ultimate attack of 4 quicks and 2 spinners.

However, because the team does have 4 top-class quicks and a spinner then there is little choice but for the keeper to bat at 6. The batting order is consequently 'unbalanced'. Therefore, each member of the tail must be able to make a contribution to the score. No 'bunnies' are allowed. If we assume that 1-3 average 60, 4-6 average 40, then 7 and the tail must average 20 runs to get to the magical total of 400. With 5 front-line bowlers that total can generally be defended no matter who the opposition.

Having said all that, the real reason to have an expansive bowling attack is that it makes for a more exciting Test match. No one likes to watch both teams score a ton of runs with the result being a life-less draw. We are really aiming for 4 innings of roughly 300 runs each.

But I could be completely wrong.

True. I believe that in the latter half of his career, Imran averaged over 50 with the bat anyhow, which puts him right up there with very good batsmen.

Hadlee and Wasim were both capable of making very decent totals with the bat too. Both made centuries. So I don't actually think that it is unbalanced, but rather more balanced than some combos that go for the straight 6 bats, 4 bowlers and 1 WK.

Imran, Wasim and Hadlee lose very little on any other combo of three quicks you could come up with, IMO. The fact that you also have Marshall hones the point of how well balanced this actually is.

One remarkable thing about Gilchrist: Guys like Sangakarra and Alec Stewart have averaged significantly higher numbers with the bat when relieved of keeping duties. Gilchrist has, remarkably, maintained an avg of close to 50 in a long career combining both keeping and batting.

I wonder what Gilly might've averaged with the bat without having to keep as well....

 

[watson]

True. I believe that in the latter half of his career, Imran averaged over 50 with the bat anyhow, which puts him right up there with very good batsmen.

Hadlee and Wasim were both capable of making very decent totals with the bat too. Both made centuries. So I don't actually think that it is unbalanced, but rather more balanced than some combos that go for the straight 6 bats, 4 bowlers and 1 WK.

Imran, Wasim and Hadlee lose very little on any other combo of three quicks you could come up with, IMO. The fact that you also have Marshall hones the point of how well balanced this actually is.

One remarkable thing about Gilchrist: Guys like Sangakarra and Alec Stewart have averaged significantly higher numbers with the bat when relieved of keeping duties. Gilchrist has, remarkably, maintained an avg of close to 50 in a long career combining both keeping and batting.

I wonder what Gilly might've averaged with the bat without having to keep as well....

If Gilchrist was left to concentrate on his batting alone then he probably would have developed the technique necessary to stop his off-stump being knocked over. I'm particularly thinking of fast bowlers like Flintoff bowling around the wicket. Therefore, as a No. 5-6 batsmen it seems reasonable to assume an excellent average of 50-55.

Another short-changed batsmen that springs to mind is Wayne Phillips. Unfortunately the selectors chose to experiment with him as both an opener and then keeper-batsmen when it was obvious to everyone else that he would have made a great No-5-6 if left alone to develop and mature. Again, it seems reasonable to assume an excellent average of 45-50 spread over 100 Test or so.

His innings of 120 off only 197 balls at Bridgetown in 1984 remains a fine example of how to counter-attack and underscores his intrinsic natural ability. The bowlers were Marshall. Holding. Garner, Baptiste, and Harper ! What a shame that myopia robbed the public of a truly entertaining cricketer.

3rd Test: West Indies v Australia at Bridgetown, Mar 30-Apr 4, 1984 | Cricket Scorecard | ESPN Cricinfo

 

[kyear2]

Still seems one batsman short especially againts to quality oposition. One also has to ask whick Imran you want, the young tear away or his later self who though better with the bat, wasn't the same fast bowling threat of his past.
Four great bowlers plus a more than handy Sobers backed by a great slip cordon and infield should be.more than enough. Remember also that Warne could always hold up an end and let the fast men rotate. Thats how most of the great teams did it. Seems good enough for me.

 

[watson]

Still seems one batsman short especially againts to quality oposition. One also has to ask whick Imran you want, the young tear away or his later self who though better with the bat, wasn't the same fast bowling threat of his past.
Four great bowlers plus a more than handy Sobers backed by a great slip cordon and infield should be.more than enough. Remember also that Warne could always hold up an end and let the fast men rotate. Thats how most of the great teams did it. Seems good enough for me.

Fair enough.

As for Imran, I'll take him circa 1982. At Headingly he made 113 runs and took 8/115. Just about right for an allrounder.

 

[Jager]

Good choices so far IMO, looks a decent squad.

Anwar: 6
Kirsten: 1
Hunte: 5
Dempster: 4
Turner: 1
Boon: 1
McLaren: 1
Taylor: 1
Edrich: 1
Fredericks: 1
Leyland: 1
Washbrook: 1

Richardson: 5
Thorpe: 2
Martyn: 1
Hassett: 5
Waugh: 1
Yousuf: 3
Woolley: 2
Jackson: 3
Jardine: 1
Hazare: 2
Abbas: 3
Cowdrey: 4
Bland: 2
Hussey: 1
Leyland: 1

World L XI
1. S Anwar
2. C Hunte
3. R Richardson
4. L Hassett
5. C Cowdrey
6.
7.
8. J Wardle
9. S Bond
10. J Thomson
11. T Richardson

 

[Jager]

1. Select a number 6. All-rounder or specialist batsman, it's your call.
2. Select a gloveman.

Suggested middle order batsman and a few all-rounders
Zaheer Abbas, Mohinder Amarnath, Hashim Amla, Warwick Armstrong, Mohammad Azharuddin, Ian Bell, Colin Bland, David Boon, Michael Clarke, Learie Constantine, Daryl Cullinan, Aravinda de Silva, Kumar Duleepsinhji, Sourav Ganguly, Tom Graveney, Vijay Hazare, Michael Hussey, Stanley Jackson, Douglas Jardine, Alvin Kallicharan, Younus Khan, Maurice Leyland, Saleem Malik, Damien Martyn, Mushtaq Mohammad, Seymour Nourse, Norman O'Neill, Lawrence Rowe, Thilan Samaraweera, Arthur Shrewsbury, Robin Smith, Herbie Taylor, Graeme Thorpe, Dilip Vengsarkar, Gundappa Viswanath, Mark Waugh, Frank Woolley, Mohammad Yousuf

Suggested wicket keepers
Wasim Bari, Jack Blackham, Mark Boucher, MS Dhoni, Godfrey Evans, Wally Grout, Jackie Hendriks, Prasanna Jayawardene, Syed Kirmani, Rashid Latif, Rodney Marsh, Bert Oldfield, Adam Parore, Matt Prior, Jack Russell, Ian Smith, Bob Taylor