The ATG Teams General arguing/discussing thread

[honestbharani]

Yep, once Yuv is put in ahead no.4 ahead of Martin Crowe & Zaheer ahead of Bond, she's time to move on to another ATG topic.

If it is in reference to my side, I simply wanted the variety. I would be just as happy to have Boult there tbh.

 

[Anilz]

Why are we discussing NZ India combined with a troll .
India has won 24 multination tournament . NZ only 5.
India has won 2 WC , 2 CT (1985,2013 ) AND shared one in 2002.

You can pack your team with 11 kiwi players . It won't make a difference. NZ has never won a WC . It will never win anything

 

[Anilz]

Next we will discuss how NZ is a better side than India in test when they haven"t won test series against SA, OZ AND ENG this century.

NZ has never won anything in INDIA. It will never win.

 

[honestbharani]

Hope you enjoy your stay here mate.. Won't be long

 

[ankitj]

Just put all Indians in your combined Ind/NZ XI then. Seriously, no one cares.

Utter crap post that. Read the whole discussion before making such insinuations.

 

[bagapath]

India / New Zealand combined test team (no match fixers allowed)

Sehwag
Gavaskar
Dravid
Tendulkar
M.Crowe
Dhoni + *
Mankad
Hadlee
Bond
Bedi
Chandra


India/NZ combined ODI team (no match fixers allowed)

Tendulkar
Sehwag
Ganguly
Kohli
M. Crowe
Yuvaraj
Dhoni + *
Hadlee
Zaheer
Kumble
Bond

 

[The Battlers Prince]

India / New Zealand combined test team (no match fixers allowed)

Sehwag
Gavaskar
Dravid
Tendulkar
M.Crowe
Dhoni + *
Mankad
Hadlee
Bond
Bedi
Chandra


India/NZ combined ODI team (no match fixers allowed)

Tendulkar
Sehwag
Ganguly
Kohli
M. Crowe
Yuvaraj
Dhoni + *
Hadlee
Zaheer
Kumble
Bond

Dempster must be close for Sehwag's spot in the test side?

 

[Zinzan]

Such ****** posts from both of you.

Zinzan, when you said Vettori was better than Warne, I didn't respond with "Oh you picked him because you're from NZ" even though I found it ridiculous. I gave my cricket opinion as to why I felt you were wrong.

Yet when I've been debating in cricket terms about whether Yuvraj should be included in the team ,all you two can come up with is "Oh you just want to pick him coz India" even though I'm not even saying he should make the team. Such nonsense. Piss off.

False equivalency. Vettori is very close to Warne in ODIs, I've heard a few rate Vettori over Warne with the whiteball, even if most probably do think Warne. I've never heard Zaheer Khan rated over Bond in ODIs lol, or having Yuv over Crowe at number 4 in a batting line-up. so of course I'm going to get dismissive at that point.

It's common knowledge sports fans tend to have an unconscious bias. I've noticed you especially almost always seem to go with Indian players when there's even the slightlest ghost of an argument for them in these hypothetical discussions, so I'm pointing it out. Why would get so upset about it?

 

[harsh.ag]

False equivalency. Vettori is very close to Warne in ODIs, I've heard a few rate Vettori over Warne with the whiteball, even if most probably do think Warne. I've never heard Zaheer Khan rated over Bond in ODIs lol, or having Yuv over Crowe at number 4 in a batting line-up. so of course I'm going to get dismissive at that point.

It's common knowledge sports fans tend to have an unconscious bias. I've noticed you especially almost always seem to go with Indian players when there's even the slightlest ghost of an argument for them in these hypothetical discussions, so I'm pointing it out. Why would get so upset about it?

Hate to break your bubble, Zinny, but you're the one with the blindsiding bias in this case.

a) OS has not advocated for Yuvi's inclusion ahead of Crowe at number 4. He just tried to come up with reasons why someone might want to do so.

b) So, he hasn't "gone with the Indian player when there was the slightest ghost of an argument".

c) It is far closer between Yuvi and Crowe for the number 4 spot in an ODI team than you can see, esp in a team with Dhoni, McCullum, and Cairns to follow.

d) You could respond to my following posts:

It is close. Crowe is more of a solid number 3 or 4. Builds his innings and goes hard later. Old school nineties player from the 80s. Yuvi gives you less solidity but more fireworks. He too can build an innings well but is less likely to do so than Crowe is, especially against great bowling, since Crowe's technique is overwhelmingly better.

I agree somewhat (to Shri's claim that technique isn't that important in ODIs), hence my Ind-NZ combined XI in the previous page had Yuvi.

However, I would much prefer to have Crowe coming in at number 4 with the scorecard at 10/2 against a bowling attack of Wasim, Donald, and McGrath.

Yeah, but because of our experience in the last few years, that type of batting just doesn't seem that useful anymore. Because we have seen the "higher and faster" level ODIs have evolved to, bias in favour of batsmen like Yuvi is understandable now. With Dhoni, McCullum, and Cairns to follow, it may be acceptable to have at Yuvi at 4.

It's more of a risky approach though, absolutely.

properly, instead of continuing to claim how it's a ridiculous idea.

e) The difference between Warne and Vettori is greater than the difference between Crowe and Yuvi. Deal with it.

 

[harsh.ag]

Also, for a guy with a solid technique who could build an innings well, 4 centuries in 140 innings is a bit of a hole in the resume for Crowe there. Yuvi, on the other hand, has 14 centuries in 271 innings, including 7 from the number 5 spot.

 

[Anilz]

Yes vettori over warne in odis. Such a shame he couldn't do in ODI WC semi final 1999,2007 what warne did in WC semi final 1996,1999.

And kumble whose WC average is 22 is anyday better than vettori who averaged 32 in ODI WC.
Vettori was a complete choker as far as WC is concerned .

 

[vcs]

TBF, tons are easier to come by these days in ODIs. Was a time when I thought Desmond Haynes's record of 17 ODI centuries was quite safe. Then Saeed Anwar came along, and Tendulkar couldn't stop making hundreds after it took him a looong time to get his first.

 

[Anilz]

Rahul Dravid was the top scorer in 1999 WC in ENGLAND .Yet u won't see any one including him in INDIAN ODI ATXI
Cricket Records | Records | ICC World Cup, 1999 | Most runs | ESPN Cricinfo

And Dravid ia anyday better cricketer than crowe.

 

[Zinzan]

Hate to break your bubble, Zinny, but you're the one with the blindsiding bias in this case.

Hate to break yours Harshy, but you could have had a point if you'd read my post correctly, only I was quite clear that my observation of OS's biased towards Indian's is something I've noticed for a while now, not exclusively this last discussion. Anyway, so what if he tends to lean that way, it's not a crime, nor is it a big deal anyone needs to get upset by, there a great deal of psychology behind the phenomenon of leaning towards your own.

The fact you make that claim the difference between white-ball Vettori & Warne is greater than Yuvi & Crowe doesn't change anything in the slightest, but it was nice to learn your opinion of that nonetheless & I think I can deal with your opinion without too much of a problem, so not sure what 'deal with it' means.

So withstanding the nice alphabetical presentation of your points there, there wasn't really anything there.

 

[OverratedSanity]

Whether I'm the most biased poster or not is irrelevant. Responding to any of my opinions with "Oh but you're Indian of course you'd think that" is just rubbish posting.

 

[harsh.ag]

The fact you make that claim the difference between white-ball Vettori & Warne is greater than Yuvi & Crowe doesn't change anything in the slightest, but it was nice to learn your opinion of that nonetheless & I think I can deal with your opinion without too much of a problem, so not sure what 'deal with it' means.

So withstanding the nice alphabetical presentation of your points there, there wasn't really anything there.

So those posts do nothing to temper your opinion that the idea of picking Yuvi ahead of Crowe at number 4 is a ridiculous idea?

 

[Zinzan]

Whether I'm the most biased poster or not is irrelevant. Responding to any of my opinions with "Oh but you're Indian of course you'd think that" is just rubbish posting.

Firstly, I don't recall using that exact phase at all, & secondly, you really need to get over it. You've displayed this tendency of leaning towards home players for quite some time now, so I'm lightly pointing it out. and it certainly isn't my only argument for or against these players, just a general observation with you. Wasn't aware you had such thin skin, but I'll make a note.

 

[Shri]

I agree somewhat, hence my Ind-NZ combined XI in the previous page had Yuvi.

However, I would much prefer to have Crowe coming in at number 4 with the scorecard at 10/2 against a bowling attack of Wasim, Donald, and McGrath.

Look, in the ICC Knockout tournament in the year 2000, Yuvraj scored 84 against an ATG Autralian attack that had Lee, McGrath and Gillespie bowling at the same time off 80 balls.

1st QF: Australia v India at Nairobi (Gym), Oct 7, 2000 | Cricket Scorecard | ESPN Cricinfo

His problems were always in test cricket. For a guy as skillful with the bat, the opposition bowlers just would not matter if its his day. There are very very few batsmen who play ODI cricket as good as Yuvraj Singh under pressure situations.

 

[OverratedSanity]

Firstly, I don't recall using that exact phase at all

Surprised you'd think that

?

 

[harsh.ag]

Look, in the ICC Knockout tournament in the year 2000, Yuvraj scored 84 against an ATG Autralian attack that had Lee, McGrath and Gillespie bowling at the same time off 80 balls.

1st QF: Australia v India at Nairobi (Gym), Oct 7, 2000 | Cricket Scorecard | ESPN Cricinfo

His problems were always in test cricket. For a guy as skillful with the bat, the opposition bowlers just would not matter if its his day. There are very very few batsmen who play ODI cricket as good as Yuvraj Singh under pressure situations.

That was his debut too. Was a gun knock. Remember watching it in a hotel room in Calcutta. Good times.