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The ATG Teams General arguing/discussing thread

MrPrez

International Debutant
Most seem to be picking Tayfield - interesting. I excluded him because I reckon Faulkner would do more than enough to warrant being the only spinner in a South African side. South Africa has always favoured less rather than more spin and I reckon that adding a second spinner over another gun fast bowler isn't right for a South African ATXI.
 

kyear2

International Coach
But wasn't Faulkner more of a batting all rounder whose bowling stats benefitted from the matting pitches. Could be wrong though.
 

MrPrez

International Debutant
But wasn't Faulkner more of a batting all rounder whose bowling stats benefitted from the matting pitches. Could be wrong though.
From his Wisden Obituary:
"For the team of 1912 he made 1,075 runs and obtained 163 wickets. Although at the beginning of his career, particularly at the time when he first became prominent in South African Inter-State cricket in 1906, he was of little value as a batsman, he became as the years passed, almost as great a batsman as he was a bowler."
 

ankitj

Hall of Fame Member
You have to look at the batting averages of contemporaries in Faulkner's time. I'd say a batting average of 40 in his time was almost as good as 50 in later eras. Correspondingly, his bowling average of 25 perhaps equivalent of 30-32 in other eras.

And Tayfield is a little under-rated IMO. Got plenty of fivers in not that many games.
 
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Jager

International Debutant
Interesting thinking there Prez - I actually think you might be onto something there.

Tayfield is in the Grimmett mould for me - not the most astounding strike rates for them both because they weren't enormous turners of the ball, but they both possessed superb accuracy and could grind down even the finest of batsmen
 

kyear2

International Coach
You have to look at the batting averages of contemporaries in Faulkner's time. I'd say a batting average of 40 in his time was almost as good as 50 in later eras. Correspondingly, his bowling average of 25 perhaps equivalent of 30-32 in other eras.

And Tayfield is a little under-rated IMO. Got plenty of fivers in not that many games.
Awta
 

AndyZaltzHair

Hall of Fame Member
I'll take a shot at the Pakistan ATXI

Hanif Mohammad
Saeed Anwar
Inzamam ul Haq
Javed Miandad
Mohammad Yousuf
Salim Malik
Imran Khan (c)
Wasim Bari
Wasim Akram
Waqar Younis
Saqlain/Ajmal/Qadir

12th Man: Shoaib Akhtar

A pretty formidable line up
Smali surprise exclusion of Zaheer Abbas there; I think he's one of the best bats for Pakistan and deserves to be in Pak ATG XI although the sheer weight of middle order makes it tough as to where he would play; for me, Javed Miandad and Inzamam got to be there in the middle order so that leaves another two more spots; Javed at 4 and Inzi at 5 leaves a space for Abbas at 3. It looks somewhat wrong to bat Yousuf at 6 but I think there's little option than this-

Hanif
Anwar
Abbas
Miandad
Inzamam
Yousuf
 
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kyear2

International Coach
The prevailing thought on Abbas through out his career was that he wasn't fond of fast bowling, and Marshall out right said that Abbas was afraid.
Record not that outstanding either, plus Smali is the resident expert so I would trust his judgement on this.
 

smash84

The Tiger King
Smali surprise exclusion of Zaheer Abbas there; I think he's one of the best bats for Pakistan and deserves to be in Pak ATG XI although the sheer weight of middle order makes it tough as to where he would play; for me, Javed Miandad and Inzamam got to be there in the middle order so that leaves another two more spots; Javed at 4 and Inzi at 5 leaves a space for Abbas at 3. It looks somewhat wrong to bat Yousuf at 6 but I think there's little option than this-

Hanif
Anwar
Abbas
Miandad
Inzamam
Yousuf
Salim Malik is one of the more under rated Pak players (match fixing doesn't help his cause :ph34r:) he was a very good player of spin bowling (not good as Zaheer probably) and definitely better than Abbas against pace bowling. Besides Salim Malik fits very nicely into the number 6 position since he used to bat in the lower middle order. As NUFAN pointed out that rather than just cramming good players into the team it is important that the team be balanced. Keeping Malik into the side allows the other players to bat in their preferred spots. He has a record similar to Abbas as well. Hence Saleem Malik over Abbas.

The prevailing thought on Abbas through out his career was that he wasn't fond of fast bowling, and Marshall out right said that Abbas was afraid.
Record not that outstanding either, plus Smali is the resident expert so I would trust his judgement on this.
I didn't watch Zaheer Abbas bat too much but I do rely a lot on Imran's opinion of him which matches that of Marshall's. Apparently Zaheer could be easily intimidated and with Imran as captain of the side that won't be tolerated.
 

fredfertang

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
The prevailing thought on Abbas through out his career was that he wasn't fond of fast bowling, and Marshall out right said that Abbas was afraid.
Record not that outstanding either, plus Smali is the resident expert so I would trust his judgement on this.
He was very easy on the eye was Zaheer and at his best looked unstoppable, but he was prone to lapses of form which did seem to coincide when the oppo had some top class pace bowling

Mushy was a class act, with bat and ball, and I'd consider him for an all time Pak XI
 

kyear2

International Coach
Yes, Mushtaq Mohammad would be a very good option as a good lower order bat and a fifth bowling option which Smali's team lacks.
 

Red

The normal awards that everyone else has
Bradman's Best XI
A. Morris
B. Richards
D. Bradman
S. Tendulkar
G. Sobers
D. Tallon
R. Lindwall
D. Lillee
A. Bedser
B. O'Reilly
C. Grimmett
12th- W. Hammond

Benaud's Best XI
J. Hobbs
S. Gavaskar
D. Bradman
V. Richards
S. Tendulkar
G. Sobers
I. Khan
A. Gilchrist
S. Warne
D. Lillee
S. Barnes
12th- K. Miller
 
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AndyZaltzHair

Hall of Fame Member
Harsh on a guy who hit 3 double centuries and was tagged as Asian Bradman once, reasonable record against Australia and outstanding record against England, great periods for Gloucestershire and made tons of runs for them but I guess his poor record against West Indies sometimes doesn't help the cause.
 

smash84

The Tiger King
He was very easy on the eye was Zaheer and at his best looked unstoppable, but he was prone to lapses of form which did seem to coincide when the oppo had some top class pace bowling

Mushy was a class act, with bat and ball, and I'd consider him for an all time Pak XI
Hmm....you're right. I didn't consider Mushtaq M. Didn't watch him much either.

Fred, did you watch Imran's older cousin Majid Khan bat? Apparently he was a very very good player of fast bowling. I think he even gets mentioned by either Viv or Colin Croft in Fire in Babylon. How good was Majid?

Bradman's Best XI
A. Morris
B. Richards
D. Bradman
S. Tendulkar
G. Sobers
D. Tallon
R. Lindwall
D. Lillee
A. Bedser
B. O'Reilly
C. Grimmett
12th- W. Hammond

Benaud's Best XI
J. Hobbs
S. Gavaskar
D. Bradman
V. Richards
S. Tendulkar
G. Sobers
I. Khan
A. Gilchrist
S. Warne
D. Lillee
S. Barnes
12th- K. Miller
benaud's XI seems much better
 

smash84

The Tiger King
Yes, Mushtaq Mohammad would be a very good option as a good lower order bat and a fifth bowling option which Smali's team lacks.
Yep, maybe my team can be

Hanif
Anwar
Inzy
Javed
Yousuf
Mushtaq M
Imran Khan
Wasim Bari
Wasim Akram
Younis
Saqlain/Qadir/Ajmal

Does seem like a better outfit than the one with Saleem Malik in it
 

smash84

The Tiger King
yes, Bari lasted much longer and was as safe as Latif, if not more. Latif probably the more spectacular one in terms of diving around but I'll be conservative with my team
 

Jager

International Debutant
Fred, did you watch Imran's older cousin Majid Khan bat? Apparently he was a very very good player of fast bowling. I think he even gets mentioned by either Viv or Colin Croft in Fire in Babylon. How good was Majid?
I think the mention he got was Viv retelling how he had his cheekbone fractured by the WI pace attack :p
 

smash84

The Tiger King
yes the mention was in the breaking cheek bone but he got a mention because he was a very good player of pace bowling (along with some others) who got serious injuries (and I think he was talking about WSC at that point was he?). One of the better players of fast bowling from the SC I think.
 

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