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Sri Lanka Thread

Maximas

Cricketer Of The Year
Aha it makes all the sense in the world, better fielder, better batsman, better bowler for these (and arguably most) conditions, Prasanna bowled well in that NZ ODI and probably wouldn't play over Satchi anyway, you'd definitely rather have him as a second spinner to Satchi than Ajantha for style contrast
 

Maximas

Cricketer Of The Year
Herath out means SL's slim chances of winning this time is gone too IMO - Sena can't do the same job anymore since the action remodel.

Seriously **** you Jayasuriya.. ***** does Ajantha have to do to get picked?
Yes he can

Herath isn't out btw, this is a precaution, to get picked Ajantha needs to prove he can do the job, he hasn't done that since 2008
 

Prince EWS

Global Moderator
Yeah I think the Prasanna pick is probably a good one. Sri Lanka's fringe players are all just so dire though; no matter who they pick or which balance they go for, they've got a few chumps in there who it'd be a legitimate surprise to see contribute.
 

YorksLanka

International Debutant
Yeah I agree it's a fair enough selection as a precaution. Hopefully Rangana will recover and he won't be needed...
 

viriya

International Captain
Aha it makes all the sense in the world, better fielder, better batsman, better bowler for these (and arguably most) conditions, Prasanna bowled well in that NZ ODI and probably wouldn't play over Satchi anyway, you'd definitely rather have him as a second spinner to Satchi than Ajantha for style contrast
Yes he can

Herath isn't out btw, this is a precaution, to get picked Ajantha needs to prove he can do the job, he hasn't done that since 2008
How exactly is Prasanna clearly a better option than Mendis? He barely gets wickets (@ 43) and unlike Jeevan he can't bat either. Saying he's a better batter than Ajantha when he gets 4 more runs per innings is really pushing it. We both know they are useless with the bat.

How has Ajantha not done his job since 2008? Since 2012, he has been SL's best wicket-taking option, and he has performed well vs SL's likely semifinal opponents as well:
3-30 vs SA
3-35 vs NZ
4-51 vs SA
3-49 vs Aus
3-35 vs SA
3-36 vs SA

He averages <16 @ <5 econ over 8 games vs SA.. Is that not doing his job?

You guys are overestimating the "leggies do well in Aus" idea.. sometimes one bowler is just plainly a better option regardless of whether he has a similar style to another in the team already. Isn't Dilshan going to be effective if Sena is playing? It's a stupid argument.
 
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Maximas

Cricketer Of The Year
as discussed on many occasions you won't convince me anything with your selective use of stats, last I'll say on the matter is that Ajantha is suited to bowling at home where he will actually get small amounts of purchase and his role is conductive to the conditions and the type of situations he bowls in, usually amidst the middle order strangle we usually try to do, he succeeds due to a combination of his bowling style becoming more effective and the batsmen being left with little option but to go after him, the stats support this. Unfortunately situations and pitch conditions such as those mentioned won't present themselves in this world cup, and given our lack of wicket-taking options in the fast bowling department our spinners are left with the task of containing but also picking up wickets, therefore if anything Suraj Randiv may well have been the most suited option, however his lack of recent international exposure makes him a gamble. The selectors have decided Prasanna is the next best we've got probably based largely on his utility factor more than anything and that's fair enough given the role our frontline spinners are forced to play given our situation. Ajantha isn't good enough to do it, not many spinners around the world would be, but because he can't do anything else there'd be little point bringing him in
 
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viriya

International Captain
as discussed on many occasions you won't convince me anything with your selective use of stats, last I'll say on the matter is that Ajantha is suited to bowling at home where he will actually get small amounts of purchase and his role is conductive to the conditions and the type of situations he bowls in, usually amidst the middle order strangle we usually try to do, he succeeds due to a combination of his bowling style becoming more effective and the batsmen being left with little option but to go after him, the stats support this. Unfortunately situations and pitch conditions such as those mentioned won't present themselves in this world cup, and given our lack of wicket-taking options in the fast bowling department our spinners are left with the task of containing but also picking up wickets, therefore if anything Suraj Randiv may well have been the most suited option, however his lack of recent international exposure makes him a gamble. The selectors have decided Prasanna is the next best we've got probably based largely on his utility factor more than anything and that's fair enough given the role our frontline spinners are forced to play given our situation. Ajantha isn't good enough to do it, not many spinners around the world would be, but because he can't do anything else there'd be little point bringing him in
What makes you think Prasanna (5 econ) can play a better containing job than Ajantha (4.7 econ)? Maybe I'm being "selective" in my stats here again.
 

Maximas

Cricketer Of The Year
Because we aren't playing in Asia, and you've missed the point entirely, the reason the selection is good is not because Prasanna is a better bowler (which he could well be) but because no one apart from Herath and possibly Satchi is good enough to function as a frontline spinner in Aus/NZ in tamden with a woeful pace attack, so they've picked someone who can at least provide utility
 

viriya

International Captain
Because we aren't playing in Asia, and you've missed the point entirely, the reason the selection is good is not because Prasanna is a better bowler (which he could well be) but because no one apart from Herath and possibly Satchi is good enough to function as a frontline spinner in Aus/NZ in tamden with a woeful pace attack, so they've picked someone who can at least provide utility
Ajantha's econ doesn't change outside Asia (4.7), and Prasanna has only played a single game outside, and in Asia his econ is 5+...

What utility exactly does he bring outside of his bowling? His batting is useless: +4 runs is not what you make selection over - that's like saying you pick Warne over Murali because Warne got 6 runs more than Murali as a batsman... Picking a legspinner just because it's different is not the way to go - you pick your clear best options and only look at style when it's a close decision.
 
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Maximas

Cricketer Of The Year
Oh my God it's nothing like that, you've completely glossed over the fielding issue (which given our recent crap fielding as a team it is a serious point of interest) and while Prasanna's batting hasn't clicked at international level, he clearly has far more class than Ajantha with the bat and is more likely to provide able lower support or a handy cameo than Ajantha.

Why don't you actually make an argument rather than pander stats, because you're choosing general stats that don't properly reflect the situation Ajantha will find himself in if he were to come into the team at some point during the world cup, let me explain...

The fast bowling has regressed rather alarmingly, even since the last time Ajantha played outside Asia in England, he probably won't have the benefit of early wickets to help him maintain economy against the good batting line-ups. To be economic in this WC, you need to be a wicket-taking threat or bowling in a low pressure situation such as after the loss of wickets because the pitches and fielding restrictions have made it impossible to contain simply by putting the ball on the spot, particularly when it skids straight on as in Ajantha's case. From our spin bowling ranks only Rangana Herath has the class required to remain threatening enough to keep the batsman on guard in these conidtions while also not giving up constant pressure-relieving deliveries, Satchi is an anomoly, where his defensive bowling (certainly before the remodel) was good enough in most conditions to remain economical despite not taking many wickets.

Ajantha Mendis takes a lot of wickets, leading to a reputation of being an 'attacking bowler', but that's a myth IMO, he benefits from mistakes because he uses many variations and is a player that teams are often forced to target, it's no wonder he's toothless in test cricket where the onus is more on the bowler to induce an error rather than simply try to outfox a batsman who needs to score quickly. However this is Australia/NZ with extremely flat wickets, batsman can hit through the line and mistime sixes with only 4 fielders on the rope and if they are playing SL not a huge threat coming from the pace attack, Mendis would get murdered at worst, milked at best.

Prasanna puts far more revs on the ball and his style is more genuinely attacking, meaning he'll have a better chance on containing the batsmen because he provides an attacking threat that batsmen will either have to guard against or be good enough to overcome it and go big anyway. And in any case he'd only ever play as a second spinner where secondary skills such as batting and fielding are pre-requisites to get the spot in order to balance the team.

Don't reply with stats
 

viriya

International Captain
I've seen Prasanna bat enough times, and there is no way he has more "class" that Ajantha.. he is just a bad pinch-hitter - he can't stay at the crease or effectively get runs quickly. I don't even know why this is something you bring up.

Ok so Ajantha isn't an "attacking bowler", he's just lucky because batsmen just consistently "make mistakes because he uses many variations"? Who the hell cares why/how he gets wickets - the point is he does, and it's just glossed over because of his style of bowling. He. is. effective. That's the point.

Bringing up how he has disappointed in Tests is just irrelevant. Narine has been a Test disappointment - does that mean he's not a good ODI bowler? What has Prasanna done in Tests aside from going wicketless?

And apparently Ajantha is just lucky everytime he gets wickets and "he probably won't have the benefit of early wickets to help him maintain economy" - what kind of anecdotal bull**** is this? You tell me to not to bring up stats and you come up with these nonsensical unproven arguments like those are better.. So if Aus is 100-0 at the 15th it's better to have Prasanna bowling the 16th over than Ajantha because...? I guess Prasanna is that guy that excels when no one else does. What a guy.

I guess he will "put more revs on the ball".. it's a proven method of getting wickets... as we all know Moeen Ali who "puts more revs on the ball" is a far more effective option than Herath...
 
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Maximas

Cricketer Of The Year
I've seen Prasanna bat enough times, and there is no way he has more "class" that Ajantha.. he is just a bad pinch-hitter - he can't stay at the crease or effectively get runs quickly. I don't even know why this is something you bring up.
His promotions up the order have failed, probably owing to the fact that he isn't an international standard batsman, I've seen him have some success down the order however and that is ultimately what I'd expect from a second specialist spinner playing in Australia, Ajantha certainly couldn't provide it anyway

Ok so Ajantha isn't an "attacking bowler", he's just lucky because batsmen just consistently "make mistakes because he uses many variations"? Who the hell cares why/how he gets wickets - the point is he does, and it's just glossed over because of his style of bowling. He. is. effective. That's the point.
Well no, I provided reasons why he gets wickets at home or as part of a stronger attack and stated such conditions/situations wouldn't present themselves at this world cup, that's why it's important to care and understand why he gets wickets.

Bringing up how he has disappointed in Tests is just irrelevant. Narine has been a Test disappointment - does that mean he's not a good ODI bowler? What has Prasanna done in Tests aside from going wicketless?
It was relevant to my point about the true nature of Ajantha's 'attacking bowling', viewing it in isolation in a debate about ODI bowling is robbing it of the context I provided. Unfortunately I only have Prasanna's FC and particularly his 'A' team performances to go on to address your final point there but the signs are encouraging.

And apparently Ajantha is just lucky everytime he gets wickets and "he probably won't have the benefit of early wickets to help him maintain economy" - what kind of anecdotal bull**** is this? You tell me to not to bring up stats and you come up with these nonsensical unproven arguments like those are better.. So if Aus is 100-0 at the 15th it's better to have Prasanna bowling the 16th over than Ajantha because...? I guess Prasanna is that guy that excels when no one else does. What a guy.
The decline of Kulesakara and even Malinga as incisive (and accurate) opening bowlers, the lack of wicket-taking form Thisara has shown and the inability of Lakmal and to some extent Matthews to pick up the slack leads me to the conclusion that it is very likely that early wickets and early control will be less likely with this attack, I can't help but feel that is the logical conclusion. Against the minnows this effect was less pronounced but we saw against both NZ and England how damaging it can be to let the opposition off to a flier. It's better to have Prasanna bowling in the situation you described because he is more likely to force a mistake, similar to Herath's dismissal of BMac in the opening game.

I guess he will "put more revs on the ball".. it's a proven method of getting wickets... as we all know Moeen Ali who "puts more revs on the ball" is a far more effective option than Herath...
This is disingenuous, there is of course more to spin bowling than revs as proven by the comparison you made, however what does Mendis offer that makes up for the severe shortage of revs on the ball when he bowls? You might say variation but everything goes straight for him most of the time unfortunately, and he doesn't particularly vary his flight so he becomes very predictable.
 

viriya

International Captain
His promotions up the order have failed, probably owing to the fact that he isn't an international standard batsman, I've seen him have some success down the order however and that is ultimately what I'd expect from a second specialist spinner playing in Australia, Ajantha certainly couldn't provide it anyway



Well no, I provided reasons why he gets wickets at home or as part of a stronger attack and stated such conditions/situations wouldn't present themselves at this world cup, that's why it's important to care and understand why he gets wickets.



It was relevant to my point about the true nature of Ajantha's 'attacking bowling', viewing it in isolation in a debate about ODI bowling is robbing it of the context I provided. Unfortunately I only have Prasanna's FC and particularly his 'A' team performances to go on to address your final point there but the signs are encouraging.



The decline of Kulesakara and even Malinga as incisive (and accurate) opening bowlers, the lack of wicket-taking form Thisara has shown and the inability of Lakmal and to some extent Matthews to pick up the slack leads me to the conclusion that it is very likely that early wickets and early control will be less likely with this attack, I can't help but feel that is the logical conclusion. Against the minnows this effect was less pronounced but we saw against both NZ and England how damaging it can be to let the opposition off to a flier. It's better to have Prasanna bowling in the situation you described because he is more likely to force a mistake, similar to Herath's dismissal of BMac in the opening game.



This is disingenuous, there is of course more to spin bowling than revs as proven by the comparison you made, however what does Mendis offer that makes up for the severe shortage of revs on the ball when he bowls? You might say variation but everything goes straight for him most of the time unfortunately, and he doesn't particularly vary his flight so he becomes very predictable.
This is such a non-answer.. even when you try it's all guesses.. "I don't know why Ajantha gets wickets cos he just bowls straight.. batsmen must be trying to go after him and making stupid mistakes - explains why he was the top ODI wicket-taker in 2014 I'm sure"..

Let me try what you're doing.. Ajantha gets his wickets vs new batsmen.. he is the master of the double strike in the mid overs - this is a big impact skill, he does get easier to score off the longer you face him, but he is a master at getting the lbw/bowled vs the new batsman (even specialist batsmen).
 

Prince EWS

Global Moderator
The answer is simple; Ajantha doesn't just bowl straight in the subcontinent. He gets enough turn each way to make him really hard to play at first. In Oceania he'll just slide on like a medium pacer, get no deviation and be hammered.

I disagree with Maximas a bit of Prasanna; I don't think he's the attacking option he claimed. He'll mainly get the ball to drift in and then fractionally straighten its angle rather than turn; like Mendis he's not going to get a lot off the straight. Unlike Mendis though he does get the ball to move in the air and he's very accurate. He's basically just a middle overs containment option who can bat a field and field well.. but that's more than Ajantha will offer in these conditions IMO.
 

viriya

International Captain
The answer is simple; Ajantha doesn't just bowl straight in the subcontinent. He gets enough turn each way to make him really hard to play at first. In Oceania he'll just slide on like a medium pacer, get no deviation and be hammered.

I disagree with Maximas a bit of Prasanna; I don't think he's the attacking option he claimed. He'll mainly get the ball to drift in and then fractionally straighten its angle rather than turn; like Mendis he's not going to get a lot off the straight. Unlike Mendis though he does get the ball to move in the air and he's very accurate. He's basically just a middle overs containment option who can bat a field and field well.. but that's more than Ajantha will offer in these conditions IMO.
How can you make that judgement call from just 2 matches in Aus/NZ? Just dismiss the top ODI wicket-taker as useless because of no pitch assistance and pick a "containment" option that goes for more runs/over than him?
 
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Maximas

Cricketer Of The Year
This is such a non-answer.. even when you try it's all guesses.. "I don't know why Ajantha gets wickets cos he just bowls straight.. batsmen must be trying to go after him and making stupid mistakes - explains why he was the top ODI wicket-taker in 2014 I'm sure"..
I've given a full explanation of why I think Ajantha takes wickets at home and sometimes abroad as part of a stronger attack, and mentioned countless times now that such conditions won't present themselves here, hard to make it clearer than that.

And they aren't guesses, they are my logical conclusions based off what I've seen, your pandering of (irrelevant) past statistics is just as much of a guess if you ask me
 
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