South Africa team selection

[Zinzan]

So today against NZ is a perfect example of what we are worried about the SA team. This game was lost because SA has no reliable 5/6, meaning Duminy and Miller.

I know they lost today, but jeez it's hard to look at the South African top 6-7's batting records and feel anything but great about it.

If anything I don't think AB takes quite enough responsibility batting at 5 and not 4, but Duminy and Miller have superb ODI records, and even with today's line-up SA have the best batting line-up in the world IMO, not sure you can make it that much stronger.

 

[StephenZA]

I know they lost today, but jeez it's hard to look at the South African top 6-7's batting records and feel anything but great about it.

If anything I don't think AB takes quite enough responsibility batting at 5 and not 4, but Duminy and Miller have superb ODI records, and even with today's line-up SA have the best batting line-up in the world IMO, not sure you can make it that much stronger.

Don`t get me wrong we have a powerful batting lineup but our top 4 have to do all the heavy lifting and at times they will fail, so you need to be able to trust your 5/6. deVillers should bat no lower than 4.

Miller got dropped because he was not consistent, he has now recently come back and looks a much better player with his ability to rotate the strike. But he needs time to get in and thus needs to bat 5. That leaves Duminy at 6 and like Miller (without the power) needs time to get in. And much to often he scores 3 off 15 and then gets out for 20/30 off 40 balls. If at the back end of an innings he is wasting balls and if coming in early he is not seeing us through to the 45th over... hence the problem. Thus we become very reliant on Faf/Amla batting at least 35 overs to ensure the strikers like QDK, deVillers, Miller, Morris, Pretorius have free reign. Duminy is highly talented but gets out stupidly at inopportune times to frequently, if Duminy can`t stick it out consistently when we are 4/5 down early he needs to be replaced. In all seriousness we have potential better younger performers sitting at domestic level. It is also forcing us into a position where we are playing 3 bowleing allrounders who are not our best bowlers.

 

[Dendarii]

I personally think that Faf should be at 6, he has the game both to rotate the strike and hit a long ball when needed and does both from the word go. Its him or deVillers; but deVillers should bat at least 4. Miller needs to bat 5. That allows us to pick a top order batsmen from domestic to bat 3. de Bruyn would be my choice but Elgar could do the job as well and is a handy spin bowler.

Here are the breakdowns by positions:

Duminy

Position	Matches	Average	Strike Rate
3	11	39.50	80.12
4	28	53.42	88.62
5	76	37.26	81.42
6	26	31.94	85.97

Du Plessis

Position	Matches	Average	Strike Rate
3	58	51.30	87.45
4	11	36.00	92.30
5	19	26.70	86.14
6	11	35.25	96.57

De Villiers

Position	Matches	Average	Strike Rate
3	12	62.81	125.78
4	116	53.79	96.81
5	38	78.54	108.64
6	2	-	117.07

Obviously there are some small sample sizes here, but you might be onto something with Faf at 6, as it does seem that Duminy could benefit from moving up the order. I suspect that we're stuck with him for the Champions Trophy, so maybe a change in position might be the only thing that has any chance of happening.

 

[Zinzan]

Don`t get me wrong we have a powerful batting lineup but our top 4 have to do all the heavy lifting and at times they will fail, so you need to be able to trust your 5/6. deVillers should bat no lower than 4.

Miller got dropped because he was not consistent, he has now recently come back and looks a much better player with his ability to rotate the strike. But he needs time to get in and thus needs to bat 5. That leaves Duminy at 6 and like Miller (without the power) needs time to get in. And much to often he scores 3 off 15 and then gets out for 20/30 off 40 balls. If at the back end of an innings he is wasting balls and if coming in early he is not seeing us through to the 45th over... hence the problem. Thus we become very reliant on Faf/Amla batting at least 35 overs to ensure the strikers like QDK, deVillers, Miller, Morris, Pretorius have free reign. Duminy is highly talented but gets out stupidly at inopportune times to frequently, if Duminy can`t stick it out consistently when we are 4/5 down early he needs to be replaced. In all seriousness we have potential better younger performers sitting at domestic level. It is also forcing us into a position where we are playing 3 bowleing allrounders who are not our best bowlers.

You're a tough taskmaster mate , are they really that inconsistent a line up? They'd just had a run of 13 wins in a row didn't they? And tbf, Hamilton was really tough to bat on 2nd innings the other night.

 

[StephenZA]

Here are the breakdowns by positions:

Duminy

Position	Matches	Average	Strike Rate
3	11	39.50	80.12
4	28	53.42	88.62
5	76	37.26	81.42
6	26	31.94	85.97

.

This is exactly why they are trying to bat Duminy at 4. Which he has done well in the Tests recently. But number of tons scored by Duminy is 4... 3 against Zim, 1 against Netherlands. Lots of not outs because of a strong top order. He just scores to many good 20/30`s and the occasional 50.... and his strike rate is not good enough for that to be acceptable.

You're a tough taskmaster mate , are they really that inconsistent a line up? They'd just had a run of 13 wins in a row didn't they? And tbf, Hamilton was really tough to bat on 2nd innings the other night.

No we are not that inconsistent a lineup because we have a really strong top 4.... but that top 4 can`t win every game for you and it hides potential weaknesses. The question to ask is can we be better? I think we can.

If we had won today it would have been 13 wins.

 

[Zinzan]

Stphndbsn try having Broom, Neesham de Grandhomme, Santner & Sodhi at 5 to 9 as opposed to AB, Miller, Pretorius, Morris & Parnell and you'll know what inconsistency is.

 

[StephenZA]

Stphndbsn try having Broom, Neesham de Grandhomme, Santner & Sodhi at 5 to 9 as opposed to AB, Miller, Pretorius, Morris & Parnell and you'll know what inconsistency is.

Oh don`t get me wrong I`m not comparing the current NZ to SA team.... but then we had a strong team going into a semi-final and still lost.

 

[Zinzan]

Oh don`t get me wrong I`m not comparing the current NZ to SA team.... but then we had a strong team going into a semi-final and still lost.

That's more to do with the pressure of knockout tournament games than talent though when it comes to SA I hate to remind you.

I'm really looking fwd to the remainder of this series with the prospect of Guptill returning next game, still hold SA as favourties, but Guptill is our best white ball batter these days & provides NZ with 3 genuinely world class batsmen in the top 4.

 

[StephenZA]

That's more to do with the pressure of knockout tournament games than talent though when it comes to SA I hate to remind you.

I'm really looking fwd to the remainder of this series with the prospect of Guptill returning next game, still hold SA as favourties, but Guptill is our best white ball batter these days & provides NZ with 3 genuinely world class batsmen in the top 4.

Oh I know that... but players like Duminy who make good 20/30`s struggle under pressure. Anyway it was the rain the hurt us...again

Guptill returning for you guys is big, but hopefully Rabada is back... need a strike bowler, actually need two...

 

[akilana]

I know they lost today, but jeez it's hard to look at the South African top 6-7's batting records and feel anything but great about it.

If anything I don't think AB takes quite enough responsibility batting at 5 and not 4, but Duminy and Miller have superb ODI records, and even with today's line-up SA have the best batting line-up in the world IMO, not sure you can make it that much stronger.

I think AB takes more responsibility by batting at 5. He can play at almost any position but Duminy and Faf benefit from batting higher up the order. It is better for SA that AB is there at the end to close out games until they find somebody better than Duminy.

 

[honestbharani]

Why not bat JPD at 3, AB at 4, Miller and Faf at 5 and 6?

 

[weldone]

Why not bat JPD at 3, AB at 4, Miller and Faf at 5 and 6?

Nah the current lineup of Amla-Kock-Faf-AB-JPD-Miller-Morris works perfectly.

 

[StephenZA]

I think you guys are misunderstanding the discussion here... I don't trust Duminy to do the job, whatever position he bats, and think he needs to be replaced. If Rillee was still available then it should have been a certainty. We have some good batsmen sitting here in SA playing domestic cricket, particularly de Bruyn who I think could bat 3 for us and push Faf to 6. Will it happen probably not... it should though.

 

[Dendarii]

Nah the current lineup of Amla-Kock-Faf-AB-JPD-Miller-Morris works perfectly.

Except today it didn't...

 

[SeamUp]

A year to 18 months ago I couldnt see us going on an ODI run like we've just been on.

With this new lower order and attack they seem to be improving and probably we are ahead of schedule. Hopefully they learn from games like the other day. Our seam attack doesnt have the experience of Boult/Southee.

Morris has only played a hand-full of tp knocks, Andile is 20 and played 2 good knocks and that was Dwaine's first performance with the bat.

We obviously on a wave with a recent run but maybe we need to realise we cant expect perfection with them yet.

 

[Dendarii]

It seems as though Heinrich Klaasen may be going to New Zealand as De Kock's backup for the test series.

Titans pick new keeper as Heinrich Klaasen linked to Test squad call

 

[StephenZA]

It seems as though Heinrich Klaasen may be going to New Zealand as De Kock's backup for the test series.

Titans pick new keeper as Heinrich Klaasen linked to Test squad call

Good for him if true.... they have not official announced the Test squad right?

 

[Dendarii]

Good for him if true.... they have not official announced the Test squad right?

I don't think so. This looks like it's just speculation based on him being missing from training with the Titans.

 

[SeamUp]

Just looked at the Titans squad for tomorrow and he isn't there. I also think Keshav Maharaj has been pulled from the Dolphins squad. Seems a bit odd. Surely they can play tomorrow.

While on topic, Vernon had his first 50-over game back last night. Steady and unspectacular but crucial to keep him ticking over for New Zealand.

 

[StephenZA]

Well it is less than 2 weeks for the first Test so maybe bringing them into NZ early? Don`t think there is time for a practice match between the ODI`s and Tests?