Ranking the candidates for best fast/pace bowler ever: The Rankings thread

[trundler]

Dale Steyn has the best strike rate in Test cricket even though he played in the toughest era of fast bowlers. I am sure he would have excelled in the 70s/80s/90s when there were around half a dozen ATG bowlers and conditions were much better for fast bowlers.

2 things:
Conditions aren't tough in South Afica where he mostly plays which bridges the era gap somewhat. I know Steyn has done great everywhere which puts him in the top 4 but it still negates the era argument to an extent.

Run scoring has gotten much quicker (T20, big bats and all that) so naturally his strike rate is lower and ER higher. Trueman's SR of 49 in era of horribly, horribly horribly (and I cannot emphasize how horribly) slow scoring and Marshall's one of 46 have to be on the same level.

 

[Slifer]

Dale Steyn has the best strike rate in Test cricket even though he played in the toughest era of fast bowlers. I am sure he would have excelled in the 70s/80s/90s when there were around half a dozen ATG bowlers and conditions were much better for fast bowlers.

In his own team, he has two team mates one with a better sr and the other with a sub 50 sr. That says to me that bowling especially in south Africa hasn't been all that tough for fast bowlers. I agree that Steyn is in the top five but rating the likes of Hadlee, Ambrose etc above him is not outside the realms of possibilities. Oh and pitches in the 70s, 80s, 90s were not universally better for bowling. Especially in the Sub con. And then there was the issue of local umpires. Especially with someone like Malcolm Marshall one should never underestimate his performances in Pakistan!!

 

[Slifer]

2 things:
Conditions aren't tough in South Afica where he mostly plays which bridges the era gap somewhat. I know Steyn has done great everywhere which puts him in the top 4 but it still negates the era argument to an extent.

Run scoring has gotten much quicker (T20, big bats and all that) so naturally his strike rate is lower and ER higher. Trueman's SR of 49 in era of horribly, horribly horribly (and I cannot emphasize how horribly) slow scoring and Marshall's one of 46 have to be on the same level.

Awta.

 

[Logan]

Dale Steyn’s contemporaries were Mitchell Johnson and James Anderson. Johnson’s average was 28 and SR was 51. Anderson’s average is 27 and SR is 55. Steyn’s average is 22 and SR is 42. He was light years ahead of his peers.


Malcolm Marshall’s bowling average of 20.94 is the best for any bowler with over 150 wickets. But there are half a dozen bowlers who debuted between 1970-1980 whose average is less than 23. His own team mate Joel Garner’s average was 20.97. Only one bowler who made his debut in the 2000s has an average below 25 and that person is Dale Steyn.


Steyn has done it all. He picks wickets at a faster rate than anyone else in history. He dominated his era more than any other bowler dominated his era. His record in Asia is probably the best for any fast bowler. Statistically speaking, he is the best fast bowler post-WW 2.

 

[Logan]

In his own team, he has two team mates one with a better sr and the other with a sub 50 sr. That says to me that bowling especially in south Africa hasn't been all that tough for fast bowlers. I agree that Steyn is in the top five but rating the likes of Hadlee, Ambrose etc above him is not outside the realms of possibilities. Oh and pitches in the 70s, 80s, 90s were not universally better for bowling. Especially in the Sub con. And then there was the issue of local umpires. Especially with someone like Malcolm Marshall one should never underestimate his performances in Pakistan!!

1) Rabada has a better SR than Steyn. But Rabada and Steyn are from different eras. Steyn made his debut in 2004. Rabada made his debut in 2015.

2) Yes, the 70s, 80s and 90s were better for fast bowling. That’s not even debatable.

3) Steyn has performed well not just in South Africa. His record in Asia is better than that of McGrath and Marshall.

 

[a massive zebra]

Malcolm Marshall’s bowling average of 20.94 is the best for any bowler with over 150 wickets.

Not correct. Sydney Barnes and Alan Davidson both took over 150 wickets at better averages.

 

[Slifer]

1) Rabada has a better SR than Steyn. But Rabada and Steyn are from different eras. Steyn made his debut in 2004. Rabada made his debut in 2015.

2) Yes, the 70s, 80s and 90s were better for fast bowling. That’s not even debatable.

3) Steyn has performed well not just in South Africa. His record in Asia is better than that of McGrath and Marshall.

Steyn is not statistically the best post war bowler. Huh?? Steyn is + 25 vs Eng, Australia, and SL. MM is sub 23 vs everyone . Steyn has performed in India but that's not unique to him among atg fast bowlers. Yes he is by far the best of his time but that's not enough to rate him above past greats. Sure as hell not MM

 

[flibbertyjibber]

Safe to say other than Alderman and Ellison for a couple of games I have never seen a swing bowler bowl as well as Anderson has in the last couple of years. Doesn't make him anywhere near the best paceman of all time but there is something exciting watching a swing bowler bamboozle a batsman with subtle variations.

 

[trundler]

Is Anderson the best of the 'condition reliant' lot? I'm thinking Philander, Alderman, et al.

 

[Slifer]

Safe to say other than Alderman and Ellison for a couple of games I have never seen a swing bowler bowl as well as Anderson has in the last couple of years. Doesn't make him anywhere near the best paceman of all time but there is something exciting watching a swing bowler bamboozle a batsman with subtle variations.

I also love seeing Broad when he's on song. Such a devastating bowler. Love his easy action.

 

[Burgey]

Dale Steyn has the best strike rate in Test cricket even though he played in the toughest era of fast bowlers. I am sure he would have excelled in the 70s/80s/90s when there were around half a dozen ATG bowlers and conditions were much better for fast bowlers.

2000s were tougher than 2010s for fast bowlers imo. Though he played a bit in the 2000s anyway. Great bowler.

 

[Red]

Mr Mister, would you let me run the spin bowlers version of this?

I'd like to, but if you want it to be your thing that's more than fine too.

 

[Engle]

Fast Bowler	Points	Difference
M.Marshall	534
G.McGrath	484	50
C.Ambrose	460	24
R.Hadlee	459	1
D.Steyn	455	4
S.Barnes	416	39
D.Lillee	373	43
F.Trueman	370	3
Imran K.	355	15
Wasim A.	308	47
R.Lindwall	306	2
M.Holding	306	0
A.Donald	306	0
J.Garner	285	21
Waqar Y.	281	4
A.Davidson	265	16
A.Roberts	227	38
S.Pollock	177	50
H.Larwood	153	24
A.Bedser	145	8
C.Walsh	144	1
N.Adcock	130	14
F.Tyson	109	21
V.Philander	108	1
J. Anderson	89	19

 

[trundler]

Think we were a bit harsh to place Vern ahead of Jimmy.

 

[mr_mister]

Mr Mister, would you let me run the spin bowlers version of this?

I'd like to, but if you want it to be your thing that's more than fine too.

Yeah okay. It's all yours

 

[TheJediBrah]

I look forward to seeing the same Warne v Murali arguments for the 12395th time

Would love to see a smokey like O'Reilly, Laker or Bert Ironmonger take it out

 

[trundler]

I really do think O'Reilly should take it. Not so sure about the other 2 since they're finger spinners. Problem is there's practically no way to soundly judge say Blythe. Would be interesting to see.

 

[jimmy101]

Top job on running this MM.

Yeah, Rhodes, Verity & Peel are another three who were the very best of their era, but might get overlooked.

 

[Zinzan]

I ran a different contest a few years ago back when I had more time:

http://www.cricketweb.net/forum/cri...owler-survival-grand-final-2.html#post2645534

It's interesting to compare the stocks of some of the bowlers. Steyn (for obvious reasons) had risen the fastest and hardest. The Pakistani quicks have had the shine taken off and McGrath, Ambrose and Hadlee have been swapped around like deck chairs on the titanic.

I recall this thread with Hadlee coming 2nd to Marshall.

CW must have had more active Kiwis & less active Aussies at that time

 

[stephen]

Dale Steyn’s contemporaries were Mitchell Johnson and James Anderson. Johnson’s average was 28 and SR was 51. Anderson’s average is 27 and SR is 55. Steyn’s average is 22 and SR is 42. He was light years ahead of his peers.


Malcolm Marshall’s bowling average of 20.94 is the best for any bowler with over 150 wickets. But there are half a dozen bowlers who debuted between 1970-1980 whose average is less than 23. His own team mate Joel Garner’s average was 20.97. Only one bowler who made his debut in the 2000s has an average below 25 and that person is Dale Steyn.


Steyn has done it all. He picks wickets at a faster rate than anyone else in history. He dominated his era more than any other bowler dominated his era. His record in Asia is probably the best for any fast bowler. Statistically speaking, he is the best fast bowler post-WW 2.

Steyn's peak performance was around 2010 vs India in India. That's what I'll be remembering him for.

Steyn was a beast. But he was hardly alone in being peerless in his generation. Between 2000 and 2007 McGrath was miles ahead of his contemporaries and in the best era for batting by far. 14 out of 42 batmen in history who averaged 50 or more played during that era. Rabada has played 32 tests now and has a lower average than Steyn. McGrath played 124 tests and has a lower average than Steyn. In between these two Steyn was the best in the world by a long way. There other sub-25 average bowlers who had careers simultaneously with Steyn - Philander, Harris, Pollock, Bond, Abbott, Clark and Asif. For one reason or another none of them played right the way throughout Steyn's career (Pollock due to age, Bond and Harris due to injury, Abbott due to quotas, Clark due to form, Asif due to cheating) but Steyn was hardly alone averaging low 20s during his career.

Interestingly enough, McGrath wasn't peerless during his 2002-2007 reign. Bond, Clark, Akhtar and Asif all had sub-25 averages and >50 wickets taken during this era.

I guess the point is that there is no such thing as a peerless player. Steyn ruled the roost and was the best bowler in the world from 2007-2013ish, but he's not been the first "best bowler in the world" to have happened.