Points Docked for Slow Over Rate

[Molehill]

The fielding side get allowances for the batting side holding up the game. India will not have been punished for Crawley's attempts, and vice versa. There are also allowances given for injuries, equipment changes, ball changes, etc. Most of the interruptions in this game will have no bearing on the final calculations.

15 overs in an hour should be doable even it's only seamers bowling. I can't recall any cricket board saying that they feel the required overrate is unmanageable. Then again, it's only recently that is has started to affect a teams ability to qualify for a Final. So we might see countries speak up now

Countries have been speaking up for a while. Stokes has repeatedly said that the rates are not fair on teams who bowl significantly more seam overs due to their local conditions. It's not like those on the sub continent are getting through 100 overs of spin in the same time period. The over rate penalties are hitting the same locations every time, and it's clearly not a level playing field.

Alternatively, you just create wickets where no team can last 160 overs (the ridiculous Khawaja rule) across their 2 innings (see WI) and avoid penalties that way.....but that's clearly not great for Test Cricket.

 

[shortpitched713]

England only being 2 overs short means it was a marginal decision. India seemed really slow too but it’s not hard to believe they were a few minutes faster after accounting for all the ball changes, injury timeouts, etc

The concept that these two teams played at anything resembling an acceptable rate during this match, is farcical.

 

[centurymaker]

Countries have been speaking up for a while. Stokes has repeatedly said that the rates are not fair on teams who bowl significantly more seam overs due to their local conditions. It's not like those on the sub continent are getting through 100 overs of spin in the same time period. The over rate penalties are hitting the same locations every time, and it's clearly not a level playing field.

Alternatively, you just create wickets where no team can last 160 overs (the ridiculous Khawaja rule) across their 2 innings (see WI) and avoid penalties that way.....but that's clearly not great for Test Cricket.

160 overs is a lot of overs. Almost 2 days of play per side. So making wickets that ensure a result on day 4 is the way to go. This would mostly take care of bad weather affecting results as well.

 

[flibbertyjibber]

Points would have been docked for india if india won the match. According to icc rules only winner of test match gets points docked not lossing team. What about baised umpiring? If bcci was so powerful why do umpires always give wrong decisions to indians? Paul raiffel played as 12th man for england and won you test match. What about that? Maybe English fans should stop whinging even after winning

Cry more idiot.

Umpiring was correct, proven time and again by DRS which gives the right decision so quit cry arsing you numpty.

 

[centurymaker]

The concept that these two teams played at anything resembling an acceptable rate during this match, is farcical.

Teams took a lot of injury breaks, plus a lot of water breaks by batters, all of these get removed from over rate calculations. Also time taken by fall of wickets, DRS reviews, ball changes is also removed. All said and done, the over rate is actually okay.

It's just that teams are taking too many permissible breaks.

 

[govinda indian fan]

Cry more idiot.

Umpiring was correct, proven time and again by DRS which gives the right decision so quit cry arsing you numpty.

You have no right to abuse me. Please behave yourself. I didnt swear at you and you have no reason to call me idiot.Reiffel did gave root not out when ball was hitting stumps and gave gill out caught when bat didn't touch the ball.

 

[shortpitched713]

Use the stop clock in Tests, give out the 5 run penalty for exceeding the time, just like LOI.

No need for docking points then, as the teams will have an actual in game reason to get on with it.

 

[centurymaker]

You have no right to abuse me. Please behave yourself. I didnt swear at you and you have no reason to call me idiot.Reiffel did gave root not out when ball was hitting stumps and gave gill out caught when bat didn't touch the ball.

Reiffel has a history of giving decisions against India. Ashwin said it on his youtube channel that he was often biased against India, regardless of opposition.

 

[cnerd123]

I do agree that slow over rate penalties disproportionately penalize teams that bowl a lot of seam bowling. Maybe the next step forward is conditional overrates - a different target set based on the % of seam bowled vs spin?

 

[govinda indian fan]

Reiffel has a history of giving decisions against India. Ashwin said it on his youtube channel that he was often biased against India, regardless of opposition.

and people say bcci contrals icc. India received some harsh umpiring decisions (bridgetown test 1997 half of wickets were no balls) sydney 2008. 2017 ct and 2019 wc semi where both kohli and rohit got umpire calls. If bcci was really evil as they say then we would not receive howlers from certain biased umpires

 

[Molehill]

I do agree that slow over rate penalties disproportionately penalize teams that bowl a lot of seam bowling. Maybe the next step forward is conditional overrates - a different target set based on the % of seam bowled vs spin?

Something like this - if you want 90 overs in England, you should get 100 overs in Sri Lanka etc.

The other factor not mentioned at Lord's was that it was ****ing hot, way more so than is usual in England. So you had a wicket that was condusive to seam played in conditions more suited to spin. I kind of get why over rates were slower than usual, what I still don't get is why only one team was penalised.

 

[cnerd123]

Something like this - if you want 90 overs in England, you should get 100 overs in Sri Lanka etc.

The other factor not mentioned at Lord's was that it was ****ing hot, way more so than is usual in England. So you had a wicket that was condusive to seam played in conditions more suited to spin. I kind of get why over rates were slower than usual, what I still don't get is why only one team was penalised.

I'd probably set a way of measuring it in match rather than a country by country rule. Something like the over rate expected is 15 overs per hour, unless X number of those overs are bowled by seam bowlers, in which case they have an extra Y minutes allowance provided for that hour. Something along those lines

 

[centurymaker]

I kind of get why over rates were slower than usual, what I still don't get is why only one team was penalised.

The over rate was slow because of the breaks that were allowed by the umpires but the time taken by these breaks was subtracted from over rate calculations. In the end, England were ONLY two overs short and India none.

 

[centurymaker]

what I still don't get is why only one team was penalised.

Let's put it this way:

Would you rather have England docked 8 points & India 6 points?

or

England docked 2 points & India 0 points?

 

[Molehill]

Let's put it this way:

Would you rather have England docked 8 points & India 6 points?

or

England docked 2 points & India 0 points?

Yeah, there is that I suppose (because the 8v6 is probably nearer the truth).

 

[shortpitched713]

Let's put it this way:

Would you rather have England docked 8 points & India 6 points?

or

England docked 2 points & India 0 points?

Former, obviously. I may or may not be a bit biased in this determination.

Given how my most American suggestion to empower the umps to shoot players was taken favorably, I do think both sides were clearly unacceptable in their pace, though.

 

[ankitj]

**** over rates. We are getting more results in tests than ever.

 

[Johan]

we should aim to bowl 65 overs a day from now on just to piss Jay Shah off.

 

[GotSpin]

Teams took a lot of injury breaks, plus a lot of water breaks by batters, all of these get removed from over rate calculations. Also time taken by fall of wickets, DRS reviews, ball changes is also removed. All said and done, the over rate is actually okay.

It's just that teams are taking too many permissible breaks.

It all depends on the umpires. They keep allowing this sort of carry on

 

[shortpitched713]

**** over rates. We are getting more results in tests than ever.

Kind of irrelevant honestly.

That's down to batting styles and pitches more than anything. Quality of play can decline from slow play even if you have 100% of matches with results. And an increase in over rate can increase the quality, regardless of if the match gets a result or not.