Philander, Ashwin and George Lohmann

[Dan]

Played South Africa in 3 tests when they were absolute minnows and made merry.

Also, almost every test he played against Australia was played in very favorable conditions for bowlers, and during the 1880s Australian batting was generally dire.

The average first innings score for the oppositon when Lohmann played was 113, ffs.

Much of that may have come down to Lohmann though. Circular logic?

 

[morgieb]

Why isnt Lohmann rated that highly when talking of ATG bowlers despite having a phenomenal average mimicking the statistical superiority of Bradman in batting?

The next best was Sydney Barnes IIRC who averaged at 16 a piece.

I think it might have had something to do with the fact that he played before historians/journalists started taking great interest in the game.

However, that didn't stop W.G. Grace....

 

[Spikey]

basically every argument that has been used to try to devalue bradman has instead been applied to lohmann

 

[wellAlbidarned]

Ashwin isn't playing his next 8 tests against NZ, so probably not.

 

[Garson007]

Philander would have to take more than 6 wickets every match to tie. Highly unlikely.

 

[Shri]

If India pick 3 seamers for every test against england he will take 80 wickets in the series and cross the mark for sure.

 

[uvelocity]

ashwin can bat too

 

[Spikey]

Theoretically Possible - YouTube

 

[Heboric]

Well Vernon will be playing 3 tests against Australia then 2 against New Zealand. But it will be a tall order 7 a match is a tough ask.

 

[Flametree]

Philander would have to take more than 6 wickets every match to tie. Highly unlikely.

And yet he has 63 in his first 10 tests.

If Morkel keeps blowing hot and cold, and they keep picking Tahir, I think Vernon will have a reasonable shot at it.

 

[Valer]

Philander need to do slightly worse than he did in his first 5 tests (7.2 wpm) to beat Lohmann.

Possible but unlikely.

Ashwin I think is likely as others have mentioned given the other Indian bowling at home.

On Lohmann

If we exculde him from the dataset the average runs/wicket is ~21 (19.9 without)
For all time we have ~32


This adjust the average to 16.4 /17.3 . (Note he benifits from home/ away / SA bashing as well).

Bradman does 33.4 // 32

 

[Arachnodouche]

He might get pretty close, seeing how he's playing at least eight Tests against Eng and Aus at home.

 

[fredfertang]

The South Africans who fell like lemmings to Lohmann didn't have a clue what was coming - the biggest disadvantage that Philander and Ashwin have is that their future opponents will have the chance to examine them minutely - I don't think they will necessarily fall quite as spectacularly as Mendis did, but the batsman they have to face in the coming months will certainly be ready for them

 

[Briony]

Ashwin's bowling looked ordinary in Australia.

 

[Migara]

If Ashwin comes within a bull's roar of that record it would be an utter ****ing indictment and make a mockery of the game.

Lohhmann's record is one of least important records considered he bowled to a set of **** batsmen.

 

[Days of Grace]

Philander need to do slightly worse than he did in his first 5 tests (7.2 wpm) to beat Lohmann.

Possible but unlikely.

Ashwin I think is likely as others have mentioned given the other Indian bowling at home.

On Lohmann

If we exculde him from the dataset the average runs/wicket is ~21 (19.9 without)
For all time we have ~32


This adjust the average to 16.4 /17.3 . (Note he benifits from home/ away / SA bashing as well).

Bradman does 33.4 // 32

If you take Lohmann's bowling out of all the matches he played, the other bowlers in the team still took wickets at 14.13.

Also, what is important in terms of wicket taking, is that in Lohmann's 18 matches, all 10 wickets were taken in all but one of the 36 innings, and in that one innings, 9 wickets fell. Pretty handy when you looking to get to 100 wickets as quickly as possible. I can't think of any other bowler that was blessed with such favorable conditions.

 

[doesitmatter]

if indian curators create spin pitches ( Dhoni has been talking about it as well) Ashwin might break it..6 wickets/test puts him at 97.. ..I think he will do it..

 

[Arachnodouche]

All these super old timers being touted up..it's like the first wheel was a bit square but hey, it got you around the block so it must've been great! Even looking at stills of a few of the oldies makes me wonder whether bowling biomechanics had evolved to a certain optimum in terms of maximizing output.

 

[ganeshran]

Played South Africa in 3 tests when they were absolute minnows and made merry.

Also, almost every test he played against Australia was played in very favorable conditions for bowlers, and during the 1880s Australian batting was generally dire.

The average first innings score for the oppositon when Lohmann played was 113, ffs.

You are right about the difficult batting conditions in that era and matches against relative minnows, but he still was head and shoulders above his peers who played in the same conditions.

Just feel he is hard done by cricket historians when W.G Grace and Ranji (in India) of that era have been accorded due status.

 

[Viscount Tom]

In fairness you should take into how **** the rest of India's attack is so Ashwin might well get there.