*Official* West Indies Tour of England 2020

[Flem274*]

But with Burns like glue and Denly up for it, can you be wrong?

haha

i recognise the decent in your top 4 without rating them as a good top 4 overall, or even average. as a unit the kindest i can say is they're treading water and definitely are the worst top 4 england has fielded in my time by a long way.

i stick up for burns and denly because there's a space between hapless chump and good test player, but they should not be the leading batsmen in a test match top order.

 

[Flem274*]

the only selection conundrum imo is archer v woakes. archer when he shows up is a guy you want, but woakes has a lot of value as a bowling allrounder in home conditions.

 

[honestbharani]

I think the opposite haha. Bell was really brilliant for a period, though probably not long enough to call it an era.

Sam Curran is an annoying little **** who should have never debuted when he did

Well, duh, as an India fan I am gonna agree with that last line. lol. But I think he has some spunk and some X factor. I expect him to be a regular in all formats of the game actually.

Wait aren't they both locks?

It's between Wood and Archer for that final slot I believe, unless they don't mind weakening the batting by leaving Woakes out.

I guess they are but an attack of Anderson, Broad and Woakes will be much of a muchness IMO and without Moeen I guess they may want to play Woakes for the insurance at 8 given the top 4, even if Bess is a capable bat (which by all accounts he is). Which means you gotta drop one of B or A if you wanna play Archer or Wood for the X factor. That is the reasoning I went with here. I understand, like my mafia theories, I am a bit ot the left field here.

There are 13 in that squad, so there's 3 slots between Anderson, Broad, Archer, Woakes and Wood. But yes, Anderson and Broad are both locks. Quite correctly

I am not sure who is locks really, I can honestly see them rotating in these weird circumstances, I don't really see any of the pace bowlers playing all the test Matches.

At home Broad and Anderson play, simple as that. The big decision is over whether they play the spinner and which other bowler is picked. Stokes is just a very good 5th bowler to have and gives you options.

What I posted above. I can see them playing Broad, Anderson and Archer as I feel they are your top 3 seamers but they may want the insurance of Woakes batting which may well mean a decision between B & A.

 

[flibbertyjibber]

I am not sure who is locks really, I can honestly see them rotating in these weird circumstances, I don't really see any of the pace bowlers playing all the test Matches.

Possibly not but Anderson, Broad and Stokes will all play the first test as long as nobody goes lame or gets Covid.

 

[wpdavid]

i think it's the weakest english top four i've seen since i began watching cricket

I'm racking my brain trying to think of a weaker one since I've been watching, and I haven't come up with one yet. The closest I got was 1982 after Gooch and Boycott got banned, but Gower at 4 kind of ruins that one. Maybe the tour of NZ in 1978 despite Boycott opening. At least both openers have test hundreds here, and the current top 4 doesn't include Brian Rose or Geoff Miller. Given that the 1978 line-up then had Graham Roope at number 5, the current one may actually be stronger.

 

[andruid]

Bell for the most part did his job without really dominating. That consistency would be great for the current England batting.

 

[trundler]

Every batting order around the world would be improved by Ian Bell.

 

[vcs]

Every batting order around the world would be improved by Ian Bell.

Yeah, that's true. No team really has a rock-solid middle order ATM, have they?

 

[Pothas]

the only selection conundrum imo is archer v woakes. archer when he shows up is a guy you want, but woakes has a lot of value as a bowling allrounder in home conditions.

Would be disappointed if it was not Archer, he has really not played much Test cricket, would be giving him as much experience as possible right now. Woakes is the guy I would pick if Anderson or Broad get injured. Wood did have by far his best ever couple of Tests the last time England played though so would not be particularly surprised if they go with him.

 

[grecian]

No-one is saying it's a great top 4, but we are talking with taking our best player out, so I am pretty sure there are dozens of line-ups if you took say Gower out would be much more awful.

Look Denly's career is probably what it is, a bit meh,but the other three could turn out to be decent test cricketers, so not sure why we're going down this route, I actually prefer this line up with 4 average cricketers, then some of the ones we've had recently with 3 desperatly poor or out of form cricketers, and Joe root not in form. So I am going to say we have had a fair few worse top four line-ups in the last few years since Cook retired.

 

[honestbharani]

Yeah, that's true. No team really has a rock-solid middle order ATM, have they?

I am not sure if he will get into India's. Kohli, Pujara and Rahane all better IMO and you know I don't think we should play a #6 batsman when we have Jaddu, Pant and Ashwin as our 6,7 and 8 almost anywhere in the world.

But yeah, I am not saying Bell is a bad batsman or anything. Like I said, he was good, but not quite "gun" level for me, which was the comment that triggered all of this discussion.

 

[Pothas]

Yep this top 4 is completely unproven rather than definitely bad.

 

[honestbharani]

Would be disappointed if it was not Archer, he has really not played much Test cricket, would be giving him as much experience as possible right now. Woakes is the guy I would pick if Anderson or Broad get injured. Wood did have by far his best ever couple of Tests the last time England played though so would not be particularly surprised if they go with him.

I think your best 3 seamers are Anderson, Broad and Archer, in that order. Bess, Broad and Archer is actually not a bad 8-10 especially against the Windies and when you are playing at home. But unless Stokes puts his foot down, I expect the England management to go with the conservative approach and slot in Woakes at 8.

 

[vcs]

I am not sure if he will get into India's. Kohli, Pujara and Rahane all better IMO and you know I don't think we should play a #6 batsman when we have Jaddu, Pant and Ashwin as our 6,7 and 8 almost anywhere in the world.

But yeah, I am not saying Bell is a bad batsman or anything. Like I said, he was good, but not quite "gun" level for me, which was the comment that triggered all of this discussion.

Rahane is not better than Bell.

 

[honestbharani]

Rahane is not better than Bell.

I think its subjective and arguable at best. But for me Rahane > Bell.

 

[vcs]

They're very, very close statistically. Would make a good comparison thread. Bell had better highs so I would take him.

 

[honestbharani]

I am not sure about comparing when someone is still playing. But yeah, could be a good thread...

 

[marc71178]

I think your best 3 seamers are Anderson, Broad and Archer, in that order. Bess, Broad and Archer is actually not a bad 8-10 especially against the Windies and when you are playing at home. But unless Stokes puts his foot down, I expect the England management to go with the conservative approach and slot in Woakes at 8.

Not sure which Bess, Broad and Archer you’ve seen batting if you think they’re a decent 8, 9, 10, the latter 2 especially.

 

[trundler]

Not sure which Bess, Broad and Archer you’ve seen batting if you think they’re a decent 8, 9, 10, the latter 2 especially.

2010 Broad and T20 league Archer maybe.

 

[honestbharani]

Not sure which Bess, Broad and Archer you’ve seen batting if you think they’re a decent 8, 9, 10, the latter 2 especially.

The same Bess Broad and Archer who can be better than the Windies tail at least in home conditions... I am not saying they are anything to write home about but if you can't keep that lower order in order to pick your best bowlers at home against Windies, you won't do it anywhere against anyone ever.