*Official* Warne vs Murali Discussion

[dontcloseyoureyes]

And I think it's time for this thread to take a seven-day break. Do the mods agree?

Give it a permanent break, it's just irrelevant trash.

 

[C_C]

I was the one arguing with you in that argument. The point that stands is that you're an unintelligible racist. Have an opinion, state an unbelievable point. But reason intelligently and you will at least be respected if not agreed to.

So which race am i discriminating against ?
Why is (both non-verbatim) my comment 'most aussies i've come across that are over 50 have show racist leanings' any more inflamatory than your comment 'most aussies i've come across are not racists and it is such an isolated occurance' for both are testimony of personal experiences and by the same token, not extended to the whole nation ?

Wrong comparison. In fact it indicates your large lack of understanding, whether it be Cricket or your social graces. I really think you are one warped individual.

Not good enough. State why is it a wrong comparison. Are you disagreeing that both spectators hurling abuse at cricketers and rape dont qualify under 'abusive behaviour' with the difference being in the 'nature and intensity' of the abuse, rather than whether they are absuive in themselves ?

I would prefer you didn't either.

Something we can agree on finally.

 

[C_C]

Educate yourself. There is a notion often referred to relativity. Once you compare sledging to Murder it goes out the window. I'm not arguing with you on this. Obviously you've had a warped upbringing and will not understand the issue.

From where i stand, you are the one with the warped upbringing. Relativity is relevant to guage scale. Not nature.
Punching someone is a lightyear away from feeding someone to a meat grinder in terms or relativistic scale but both are fundamentally antagonistic in nature.

 

[social]

suggests that the issue is more prevalent in OZ than in most other nations.

QUOTE]

For someone that is supposedly well educated and travelled, you have not got a clue.

Even allowing for your ridiculous contention that sectarianism is somehow more acceptable than racism simply because it is discrimination ingrained in a culture for centuries and praticed by humans from within the same gene pool (thereby excusing entire continents from the equation ), countries FROM MY PERSONAL EXPERIENCE that are decidedly more racist that Aus could ever stoop to be include:

1. USA

2. Canada

3. Much of the UK

4. Much of Europe

5. All of SE Asia (your claim in this regard is patently absurd)

6. The Middle East

7. etc etc

In other words, the majority of the world

Anyway, stick to Murali v Warne and leave racism out of it (faint hope)

 

[C_C]

Social- i will make an exception and address you- just this once.

For one, i have explicitly stated that disrcimination of any sort is bad. However, it doesnt extend to mislabelling one form of discrimination as another.

As per your personal experience goes, its largely irrelevant to me. I draw my opinions not just from my personal experiences, but from personal experiences of people i've interacted with as well as well sanctioned reports. The UN report on systematic racism in OZ is credible enough to blow your ranking system outta the water and like i said, i would rather take the word of a research done on a national scale rather than the personal experience of one.
Not only that, OZ's history suggests that it is utterly ridiculous to say that OZ's racism is lower than most of the world's. The racist philosophy existed in OZ much later than in most of the west ( btw, in SE asia, racism is largely a non-factor) and as such, its 'irradication' is, relatively speaking, in much more infantile status than most other nations.
As such, these ingrained traits of a society, much like other forms of discrimination, does not go way with a simple policy shift but through generations of development. Europe didnt spring the racist philosophy outta thin air one fine morning either. It took centuries to develop and even with our much more advanced communications and thought propagation system, it probably still will take over a century or two to irradicate it.

 

[social]

Social- i will make an exception and address you- just this once.

For one, i have explicitly stated that disrcimination of any sort is bad. However, it doesnt extend to mislabelling one form of discrimination as another.

As per your personal experience goes, its largely irrelevant to me. I draw my opinions not just from my personal experiences, but from personal experiences of people i've interacted with as well as well sanctioned reports. The UN report on systematic racism in OZ is credible enough to blow your ranking system outta the water and like i said, i would rather take the word of a research done on a national scale rather than the personal experience of one.
Not only that, OZ's history suggests that it is utterly ridiculous to say that OZ's racism is lower than most of the world's. The racist philosophy existed in OZ much later than in most of the west ( btw, in SE asia, racism is largely a non-factor) and as such, its 'irradication' is, relatively speaking, in much more infantile status than most other nations.
As such, these ingrained traits of a society, much like other forms of discrimination, does not go way with a simple policy shift but through generations of development. Europe didnt spring the racist philosophy outta thin air one fine morning either. It took centuries to develop and even with our much more advanced communications and thought propagation system, it probably still will take over a century or two to irradicate it.

There really is no point discussing this issue with you because youve never been to Aus and, for example, you take reports out of context to suit your argument.

In closing, "racism in SE Asia is largely a non-factor" really sums you up your lack of credibility on this issue.

Ive got relatives from that region, friends that live in a no. of different countries within SE Asia and have spent the majority of my life there. In other words, I know more about their attitudes than you'll ever dream of.

Stick to the issues of which you have some knowledge and preferably to cricket.

If you want to discuss racism, take it off topic but stop using virtually every thread as a veil for pushing you misguided views. It's tiresome and offensive.

 

[Ikki]

So which race am i discriminating against ?
Why is (both non-verbatim) my comment 'most aussies i've come across that are over 50 have show racist leanings' any more inflamatory than your comment 'most aussies i've come across are not racists and it is such an isolated occurance' for both are testimony of personal experiences and by the same token, not extended to the whole nation ?

So out of the 'over a thousand Australians' you claimed to meet, 50 of them had racist leanigns as you put it. That is a very small proportion. Didn't you claim MOST were Aussies? I really wonder with you. With all this claimed intelligence you make a mockery of your education.

Not good enough. State why is it a wrong comparison. Are you disagreeing that both spectators hurling abuse at cricketers and rape dont qualify under 'abusive behaviour' with the difference being in the 'nature and intensity' of the abuse, rather than whether they are absuive in themselves ?

As I already stated, sledging goes hand in hand with encouragement. Such is the nature of sport. It is a very uncommon thing to find an example which shows a person going over what is deemed "acceptable". When is killing someone not an extreme? As such there is no comparison. It is like saying lying and murder both indicate "negative social behaviour" yet there are no laws to indicate that lying is on the same level as murder. This is a reflection of society. As I said, under normal circumstances someone would grasp this. You, however, are warped. I've had to explain this to little children who ask silly questions. For an adult...it is shameful...actually more strange.

 

[dontcloseyoureyes]

So out of the 'over a thousand Australians' you claimed to meet, 50 of them had racist leanigns as you put it. That is a very small proportion. Didn't you claim MOST were Aussies? I really wonder with you. With all this claimed intelligence you make a mockery of your education.

No, he means over the age of 50.

 

[Ikki]

No, he means over the age of 50.

Phew, thought he was actually saying 50 people. Was amazing reading that thinking "all this for 50 people?". However, the points hold true. His view is very skewed.

 

[Anil]

I'm sorry, but as far as I'm concerned Muritharan isn't in the same league as Warne.

thanks for clearing that up...had my doubts on where you stand on that issue...

I know he has some outrageous average, but I don't think theres to much to be taken from it considering most wickets were awarded at home, against some poor opposition and in an attack which has only enjoyed Chaminda Vaas as a serious wicket-taker. Murili's butchering in Australia convinces me that he's only good when he plays people who are a bit crap.

the very definition of simplistic generalization!!

Much of Murilitharans success comes from the fact they let him chuck. While that can also be said of Saqlain Mushtaq, Harbijan Singh and young Johan Botha, it is worth noting that those three bowlers chuck occaisionally, while Murilitharan ALLWAYS chucks. I believe those three bowlers are all good cricketers and talented sportsmen and would still be effective players without the ICC 8-degree ruling, being very good off-spinners. I don't feel the same way about Murilitharan, who just doesn't look as co-ordinated as the others, doesn't look like a true sportsman. He'd be just another average run-of-the-mill nothing special off-spinner filling in taking the odd wicket.

it is a well-known fact that he doesn't chuck...it has been proved comprehensively but again i don't expect you to understand/accept that.....

And that's a big reason why I think the Aussie fans give him such a hard time. Like me they think he's a phoney and they don't like the repercussions of what he's done.

thanks for letting me know your opinion but i don't really care a whole lot about knowing your misguided, ignorant views....

 

[PY]

The complete lack of relevant and educating discussion on the topic at hand is frankly disappointing.

Think we'll have another break for a while, just until admin decide what should be done with this piece.

 

[Ikki]

Warne Denies Attacking Murali For Taking Easy Wickets

Warne Denies Attacking Murali For Taking Easy Wickets

Self-explanatory. What does anyone make of these heated issues? Are the press trying to rile everybody up by misprinting and mispresenting? It seems a common thing now to vilify the Australians for any/everything. Is it wrong? Are we really the devils?

 

[luckyeddie]

oh, just shut the hell up.

closed in 5....4....3....

 

[Craig]

Meh I hardly give a rats really.

 

[Ikki]

oh, just shut the hell up.

closed in 5....4....3....

Thanks Eddie . LOL

 

[FaaipDeOiad]

I don't necessarily see why this thread needs to be closed. It is a news item after all, and there's no reason it can't be discussed in a civil manner.

edit: As another issue, one should note the date of the article, to preclude the obvious "he's just covering his tracks now that he failed against Bangladesh" argument. It is from before the first test began.

 

[Ikki]

Why didn't you let me bait someone? .

 

[luckyeddie]

I don't necessarily see why this thread needs to be closed. It is a news item after all, and there's no reason it can't be discussed in a civil manner.

edit: As another issue, one should note the date of the article, to preclude the obvious "he's just covering his tracks now that he failed against Bangladesh" argument. It is from before the first test began.

1. I said it as a joke - the emoticon should have revealed that.
2. Since when have discussions about Warne or Murali ever been civil?
3. We'll see

 

[Sanz]

It seems a common thing now to vilify the Australians for any/everything.

Spectacular U-turn No 2.

"It wasn't just the skipper eating his words. Shane Warne found himself tucking into more than just his usual cheese toasties when he was force-fed a large slice of humble pie after a first-innings mauling. "I did say that players like Murali had taken a lot of wickets against Bangladesh and Zimbabwe whereas I have only played one Test against Zimbabwe," Warne said, no doubt also feeling the pinch. "But I did not mean to say that others were going after cheap wickets as had been made out to be." Leaving aside the fact that there is little other interpretation of this statement - what else did he mean? - Warne failed to pick up a single wicket in the first innings, returning bloated figures of 0 for 112 from 20 overs, his second-worst in Tests. He may have bounced back with 3 for 28 in the second innings, but by then he was already stuffed".

 

[Ikki]

Spectacular U-turn No 2.

"It wasn't just the skipper eating his words. Shane Warne found himself tucking into more than just his usual cheese toasties when he was force-fed a large slice of humble pie after a first-innings mauling. "I did say that players like Murali had taken a lot of wickets against Bangladesh and Zimbabwe whereas I have only played one Test against Zimbabwe," Warne said, no doubt also feeling the pinch. "But I did not mean to say that others were going after cheap wickets as had been made out to be." Leaving aside the fact that there is little other interpretation of this statement - what else did he mean? - Warne failed to pick up a single wicket in the first innings, returning bloated figures of 0 for 112 from 20 overs, his second-worst in Tests. He may have bounced back with 3 for 28 in the second innings, but by then he was already stuffed".

It's incorrect. As you missed it above, he clarified on his statements before the test had even began. Check the dates.